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Integrated Shootout: Rogue Tempest/Cary Sli80 sig

The Cary is stock re: all tubes except power tubes, the 6922 tubes are Sovtek, the 5u4g tubes are Sovtek as well, the 6sn7 tubes are Chinese, and the power tubes are Svet 6550 and Electro Harmonix 6550EH.
The Rogue has the Sovtek 12ax7 and JAN Phillips 12au7(tube upgrade from Rogue) and the same power tubes (Svet 6550, EH 6550EH).

Ok. The Cary is a bit more refined. Alot, actually. But the Cary with stock tubes, is brighter (I can't believe I think it sounds bright, but it does).
The Rogue had soundstage DEPTH out the yin-yang, while the Cary is more 2-D (I don't like this at all).
As far as Soundstage width , the Cary is wider, but with the depth lacking so, it seems more "fake" than the Rogue.
The Rogue, because of it's depth and acceptable width, sounds more like music in real space, but with a more "tubey" sound (it sounds colored, but the coloring makes it sound real), while the Cary's tone is purer and the pace more lively, but because of the brightness and flat soundstage, it seems to suffer by comparison. Both throw an image very, very well.

I am going to be tweaking around with some 6sn7 and 6922 tubes for the Cary, in an effort to get the brightness out (I know this can be fixed) and most importantly, the soundstage depth up to snuff. I just wanted to post my results so far. The Tempest, with the upgraded preamp tubes from Rogue (I think a $100 option) gets the nod vs the totally stock Sli80.

This is going to get good.... stay tuned.
Opinions are appreciated...
gthirteen
gthirteen OP
358 posts
 
OK!!!
I FINALLY received the tubes for the Cary.... Sylvania VT-231 (6sn7),NOS 40's vintage, and some more Amperex 7308s.

WHile I was waiting, Dekay's 7308 (also Amperex) have opened up nicely, (I wonder if he used them at all?) and Musicdoc's Sylvania 6sn7 GTB tubes sounded pretty fine as well.
Basically, after a week of listening ONLY to the Cary, I was in Heaven. Clean, Clear, accurate sound. I really started to like the Cary.
About 2 weeks ago, I had the pleasure of seeing Nickel Creek in concert in a relatively small hall in Columbia, SC. I went straight home and played their CD, which contains a live track. Sound, timbre, air, all almost exactly like what I had just heard!! AMAZING.

HOWEVER. Upon listening to the Rogue, again, I was awash in all the emotions of being there in the flesh, what the voices sound like, the ambiance of the hall, if a bit colored, was so engulfing...

The Cary is like a picture of a Jackson Pollack painting, taken with a Zeiss lens, and printed on the best paper. Pure. Accurate. Completely and totally representative of what was in front of that expensive lens when the shutter snapped open.

The Rogue is more akin to standing in front of a Jackson Pollack painting in morning light with someone else's glasses on. Immediately you can appreciate the majesty, the size, the texture; the colors aren't the same as through the Zeiss lens in perfect light, and are perhaps a bit blurred, but upon gazing for a brief time, your eyes adjust, and you see it clearly. The difference is night and day.

THe new tubes are a step foreward, but I don't think it's going to change this Pinot Noir to a Shiraz.(preference)
Unless something drastic happens re: the new tubes, I'm keeping the Rogue, which seems to love music just a bit more than the Cary.

as always, YMMV.

Joe
dekay's avatar
dekay
5,688 posts
 
Joe: I had never used the tubes except to check that both sides were working when I received them (I purchased 10-12 of these and only used one or two in my previous Audion amp). I had mentioned to the previous user that they needed a mininmum of 25-35 hours for the bass to kick in (don't know if he ran them this long). A "rougher" sounding (but good) 6922 type tube is the older Mullard. I do not have any matched pairs on hand, just singles. If you don't end up using the 7308's, send them back my way as they are half of a matched quad that I may find use for in the future. As far as the Cary goes, I have not heard it, but have never been a Cary fan in the past (with the exception of a power amp that they had years ago that sounded like an AR modified Dynaco Stereo 70). I also prefer a somewhat blurred presentaion, which sounds more like live music to me.
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drubin
3,277 posts
 
Joe, your Jackson Pollock analogy is brilliant!
gthirteen OP
358 posts
 
Thanks to all who posted.
I have sold the Cary, due to my perception of superior imaging in the Rogue.

After thinknig about it, it seems like the Cary sounded pretty good once I was able to get 10 or more feet away from the speaker plane. The stage starts at the same plane, and doesn't go Back quite alot, whereas with the Rogue, the soundstage is a bit more "laid back" literally, as it is 2-4 feet behind the plane of the speakers.
Big deal (for most people), however, I have a wierd room, which forces me to listen nearfield. AND the Nautilus speakers sound best (imaging, soundstaging) in a roughly 6 foot equlateral triangle. AND I have some wierd hearing/psychoacoustical/visual phenomenon which shifts a center image to the left if I'm (1) too far away from the speaker plane, (2)when I'm in an "altered" state of consciousness (hehe). SO for me, to reduce paranoia and trips to the hearing doctor (great, symmetrical, hearing, by the way) I like to stick to the nearfield setup.

So, thanks again, and for me, the beautiful sound of the Cary (at least, with a change in input tubes currently retailing for $225) still couldn't image and throw a deep stage like the 'ol Rogue, which wasn't quite as beautiful sounding (stock tubes, though) but possessive of an emminently more realistic presentation.

the end....
chelillingworth
309 posts
 
aha !!

Good for you, the Rogue is amazing.
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