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Is Rap a valid musical form?

This has been way more than the progression away from tubes to SS!

Believe the world of Hip Hop has been around and evolving for around 5 decades.

And for most of that time I have dismissed and avoided that world and its “music”.

So angry, offensive and abrasive. Just a bunch of rhythmic yelling.

I believe my former thread was titled “Why Rap?”.  Through that discussion and somewhat of an understanding that this must be a new art form that engages and entertains millions if not billions. That and a long standing belief that if a type of music or a particular artist attracts many, many fans there must be substance and quality there. Even if I personally don’t particularly like it there must be something there.

Rap and the Hip Hop world was always so foreign and culturally untouchable.

Then my Rap thread and several others at that time got me rethinking my perspective and I watched a video of a group of student performance musicians at Juilliard all exclaiming their fascination with a Rap artist named Kendrick Lemar and his “masterpiece” “To Pimp a Butterfly”. I bought the double LP. Trying to listen to it turned out to be difficult because of my old view of Rap and that of the world of Hip Hop. But it was also becoming clear that this was truly something of significant interest. However, I just listened to the two discs only once-with some difficulty.

Today, after several weeks, I hesitatingly pulled the album out again. And to my surprise and actually delight hearing it with fresh ears it grabbed me and would not let go. I immediately heard the brilliance of a multi faceted, and to me, all new experience in sound. Not unlike great 20th century or progressive Jazz it evolved from section to section with a plethora of fascinating, yes musical, experiences. Tonal, atonal, percussive, rhythmic, breathing combined with incredible, energetic tongue twisting strings of mostly unintelligible words. And not merely angry yelling.

Sure, a ton of F bombs but words that don’t flow over you like lovely other genres but invade the psyche and don’t let go. Not particularly pleasant but gripping and interesting in its complexity. Words delivered with such power and drive which acted as a rhythmic counterpoint. It was impossible to turn away or turn off. 
And speaking of turned off, the experience was the opposite of that. Stories of life undeniable human. Yes, driven by bitterness, anger and raw emotion. Impossible to  dismiss it as not deeply felt.

I do think “To Pimp a Butterfly” is unique. But I also believe that there must be much more in this Hip Hop world that has deep musical interest. Some time ago I heard Drake on SNL perform a song that was amazing though not really Rap. Rather an advanced and unconventional musical form. I hear similar musical threads throughout “Pimp”. I did get a CD of Drake. “Scorpion”. I also could not absorb it in my first listen. I look forward to the next, fresh listen. I did try to hear several YouTubes of some very successful Rap artists. They mostly lacked the interesting musical themes threaded through. “Pure Rap” with just the rhythmic words-not my cup of tea. But a musically valid form none the less.

 

 

mglik
jssmith
312 posts
 

@mglik 

As said in my OP, Kendrick Lamar’s “To Pimp a 🦋 Butterfly” is as sophisticated musically as any music I know. The musical themes evolve and develop including a brilliant rhythmic rap and sound effects that create “deep and broad emotional and intellectual content”. 

I listened to it. I don't hear it. Ignoring the questionable lyrics ...

Wesley's Theory - Sounds like early 70's funk with some simplistic EDM synthesizer added.

King Kunta - More 70's funk. Very repetitive four-chord bass-dominant rhythm. The beat sounds like something from the disco era.

Institutionalized - Fake drums really obvious on this one. Almost no changes on the drum rhythm through the whole song. Very simple keyboards with strange, but not interesting time signature that doesn't fit the rhythm.

These Walls - Here we go with the obvious repetitive fake drums again. The female vocals sound extremely familiar. Expose (the group) maybe? Something from early 80's. Upbeat rhythm is good. Guitar line is extremely familiar too. This song is heavily influenced from something I've heard decades ago, but I can't place the exact song.

u - Decent sax. Repetitive lyrics are irritating. Bass line drags. Weird rap voicing halfway through.

Alright - This is the third song where the sax sounds like a continuation. Again, it's buried in the background. Irritating repetitive lyrics again. Backing chorus adds the flavor this song needs.

For Sale? - Very nice chorus. First song with a more complex bass line. Nice texture added by the synth.

 

That's enough. Compared to other rap I can see the complexity, but that isn't saying much. There is no technical mastery, except the sax, but technical mastery isn't always needed to make a great song. I don't see compositional complexity either, except for maybe the sax lines and maybe a few of the harmonies.

If we're talking Julliard-approved here and it's considered compositionally complex rap let's compare it to something like 40-year-old Rush - Xanadu. I won't even touch on the technical differences.

I think it's too hard to ask those of us who are used to something like Rush to take a step back and appreciate Lamar. I can appreciate simpler music, but it must be virtuosic, either in technical ability or in composition. But there isn't a bass line on that album I couldn't master in 5 minutes. And I'm not that good. So I just don't see it.

sounds_real_audio
1,010 posts
 

I love the first rap song,  Some of you might remember.  " Rapture " Blondie

pjnanook
2 posts
 

Valid? Just as much as the spoken world pieces our conductor had us do in college in the ’80s. I liked them as much as I do Rap but to each his/her/thon’s own.

I find Rap quickly boring. Then again, I am always drawn the the music much more than the words in any piece. When I was singing, at least for me, the words conveyed the music.

if everyone liked to listen to the same thing, there would be only one genre and that would be a bad, bad thing.

drugolf
29 posts
 

Unfortunately yes it is. I just don’t care for it.

What I really don’t like is how it’s jammed down our throats on the various streaming services. Do we really need another rap playlist?  It's to the level also that if god forbid I search for a rap song just once, the logarithms they have then over value rap as a genre I am interested in. 

larsman's avatar
larsman
1,929 posts
 

@sounds_real_audio - Uh, no - 'Rapture' was not the first rap song; very, very far from it - it was paying tribute to earlier rappers like Grandmaster Flash...  

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