Jazz for aficionados
Rok, I have "Stardust" on "Jazz Round Round Midnight"; she's accompanied by many of the artists we've already discussed, not a hint of R&B on this CD. It captures the essence of the person; she had a deep longing for something that could never be, her 8 marriages might be an indication of that. "Honey, if I told you, you'd faint" was one of her responses to the "Three Wishes". This CD captures the person inside the entertainer more than any other. Enjoy the music. |
Just wanted to add a couple of thoughts to Learsfool's excellent comments about conductors; which I agree with. The nuances of the issue may be lost on those who don't have personal experience in this area. Lest anyone misunderstand, there ARE fine and extremely talented young(ish) conductors like (in addition to the ones mentioned) Alan Gilbert (NY Phil and a violinist), Nezet-Seguin (Philadelphia), Franz Welser-Most (Cleveland) among others. The role and importance of a first rate conductor to the success of an orchestra and it's performances should not be underestimated. It is the conductor who shapes the performance of a work and can make the difference between a performance that is lackluster and one that has musical meaning by way of being able to project his own personal vision of the music; but, perhaps even more importantly, having the technique to convey that vision in a way that makes sense to the players. A good conductor will convey that personal vision while at the same time allow some room (to varying degrees) for the individual player's vision; and allow a "relationship" between the player and the boss. An inferior inexperienced conductor will (at best), and as Learsfool points out, try to keep an overly tight grip on things and get in the way of good music making; or (at worst), simply create a musical mess. One of the most interesting aspects of this issue is that one shouldn't be fooled by APPPARENTLY great baton technique. Just as with some of the players (any genre) that have been discussed here, some conductors simply have THE THING. That hard to describe ability to convey their musician vision to the players in a meaningful way in a way that transcends the usual criteria. This ability is often tied to having (or not) a sense of being relaxed and comfortable with their own physicality. I often get the sense when playing for bad conductors that what they could benefit the most from is dance lessons; they are stiff, there is no flow to their gestures. Conversely, some conductors can literally put their arms down and the sense of pulse they still generate is amazing; they have THE THING. I will mention some conductors that I have played for in various orchestras not as name-dropping but to hopefully make the point; also keep in mind, and this is VERY important, that some conductors excel with some repertoire and not others. One of my favorite conductors is Neeme Jarvi. Jarvi is unusually comfortable with body movements and I love the fact that he put his arms down and with a simple gesture of the shoulder give a due or make a crucial musical point. He practically dances on the podium. Zdenek Macal, Ricardo Muti and James Levine are others who are able to connect with the orchestra in a way that is secure in a way that is difficult to explain. On the other hand a conductor like Lorin Maazel, who has simply unbelievable baron technique, can leave one totally cold and uninspired. In those way, they are all brilliant musicians. The most brilliant of all (in my experience) is Gergiev; but my experience underscores the importance of the repertoire involved. If someone made me pick the greatest musical experience I have ever had as a player it has to be playing Mussorgsky's "Pictures At An Exibition" under Gergiev. It was unbelievable how connected he was to the music (Russian, of course) and how well he conveyed what he wanted to the players even if his style is often completely unorthodox. On the other hand the "Bolero" previously posted shows how sometimes a particular conductor and certain repertoire just don't mix; and also highlights the one most simple and important aspect of a conductor's role: choice of tempo. The tempo of that Bolero is just too slow, with the end result that he players have difficulty with their deceptively difficult solos, and IMO robs the music of the feeling of what a bolero is all about. Personal opinion to be sure but here are some other versions to make my point, and notice in which version the solos are the most "in the pocket". Too slow: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ODeNHRtVNO4 Too fast: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l5zyYF6_eyY Just right. IMO, this is the perfect tempo for "Bolero": http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UPnWR1FgrBU BTW, these are just versions available with video. Not my favorite recorded Bolero's at all. Enjoy. |
Rok, here is the most classic "Begin The Beguine". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzjXB4knxqM Enjoy the music. |
Thanks Learsfool, Yes, you answered my question. I always thought that conductors worked their way towards being a conductor through musical ability, and those that showed an aptitude for conducting moved in that direction. I honestly had never thought about it. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my stupid questions. |
Acman3, I don't really understand your question? Van Sweden was a former concertmaster of the Concertgebouw Orchestra in Amsterdam, one of the best in the world, so he was a world class violinist who put it down and took up the baton. In a very real sense, he was better prepared to be a conductor than most who went to school specifically for it. It is always better if one actually has orchestral performance experience, and almost all of the really great conductors did have at least some. Jaap is exceptional in that he was actually a world class performer on the violin. Another example would be Anshel Brusilow, who, interestingly, also was music director of the Dallas Symphony early in his conducting career. There are also a few famous pianists who became decent conductors, like Ashkenazy, but that is more rare. Very rare indeed are conductors who didn't really play any instrument, and even these can pick at the piano a little. |
Learsfool, this sounded quite interesting when I heard it in the movie theater where "Shutter Island" was playing, but I most certainly could live without it after listening on my rig. My point is this, classical music sounds better on mega buck rigs, like at a movie theater, although it's possible that the brooding nature of the movie and the music matched. What do you think in regard to classical music and the quality of the rig? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iczj8-a7VMg Enjoy the music. |
**** What are your favorite tunes by Dinah Washington?*** As of this minute, Stardust is!!! Wow, that was really a compelling rendition. I don't recall hearing her singing such 'sophisticated' arrangements before. I always had her pegged as an down-home R&B singer. 'Invitation' was good, 'Stardust' was on a differnt level. You could hear her. You are good at finding gems that are hidden in plain sight! Thanks for the clips. Cheers |
O-10: These will bring you on board for sure! Three great clips of Gergiev with the LSO and Vienna. Note the change in his appearance from each performance. On the 'Scheherazade, he looked as if he had slept in his suit. Needed a haircut / shave, and forgot his baton. Someone should have pulled him aside. :) On Bolero he just looks weird and on Romeo & Juliet he plays it safe and goes Nehru. BOLERO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODeNHRtVNO4 Scheherarade http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQNymNaTr-Y Romeo & Juliet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxj8vSS2ELU Outstanding Camera work on all three!! Outstanding playing!! I love to watch these folks play. Great shots of the Sax player on Bolero. The LSO wins the BABE battle hands down!! I think the LSO performances were taken at the PROMS. Great stuff!! Cheers |
O-10: I have Dinah singing the Fats Waller songbook. Also a great CD of her singing with Brook Benton. "one more time brook" hahahahah I love to hear her say that. What is the correct name of the song: 'What a difference a day MAKES ' or 'what a difference a day MADE '? I have accused the woman of mispronouncing that word for years. The 100 best set lists the name as what a difference a day made! Cheers |
Learsfool: The plight of assistant Conductors and the newly hired conductors seems similar to Backup Quarterbacks in the NFL, and New 2nd Lieutenants in charge of a platoon of Infantry. Tough Jobs! I will get the book. Checked it out on Amazon. I love stuff like that. Perhaps it will show, that I am correct, in thinking that Rattle got the Berlin position, because of his hairdo! :) Again, thanks for your time in doing this. Very thorough as always. Cheers |
HI Rok - as far as conductors go, the first thing to be understood is that this works quite differently nowadays than it did in the past. In the late 19th through say the middle of the 20th century, there were many little orchestras and opera houses all throughout Europe, especially in Italy (opera) and Germany (both). There were many places that conductors could go and sort of apprentice with someone, and learn on the job. This is how all of those famous conductors learned their trade. The last few decades, they just haven't had the opportunities to get that sort of training, with very rare exceptions. Every big orchestra does have an assistant conductor, but they rarely get to actually do much, mostly just kiddie shows. If they are lucky, the music director will work with them quite a bit, and be a good teacher. They do go to music school, just like instrumentalists, but even there, they rarely get to step in front of the orchestra and actually conduct live musicians. So unlike instrumentalists, they rarely get to actually practice what they do. All they can do is study (often at the keyboard), learn scores, practice beat patterns, etc. Then when they get thrown to the wolves in the real world, they also have to deal with fund raising, etc., things they are not really taught in school. It is no wonder, given all this, that there are not many very good ones. It is a very strange set of skills required, almost none of which are easily taught. And frankly, it is almost always a drag for the professional orchestra when a young conductor gets on the podium. All of us have much more experience with whatever piece is being played than the conductor does. So not only do they rarely get opportunities, when they do, the attitude of the group is not very good, normally, unless it is an unusually talented individual who is actually pretty good. It is usually very intimidating for them, and most don't handle that well, since they are of course supposed to be the leader. A very interesting book to read is Norman Lebrecht's The Maestro Myth, by the way. Some very good bios in there of some of the really famous conductors through the years, too. |
*****Here's "New York Sketchbook" from that album.***** I like it. Sounded like NY to me. Which is amazing, considering I've never been there, save JFK. Maybe the Gershwin effect, An American in NY? :) But once you know it's by Mingus, you know there is something there, and the playing will always be of the highest order. All the listener has to do is pay attention. I don't have that Album or that tune. I thought I had EVERYTHING by Mingus. Cheers |
I was walking past the "Pershing Lounge" in Chicago, when I saw a bunch of people gawking at a car parked out front. Although it was an automobile we hadn't seen before, they were gawking because it was Dinah Washington's car, she was performing at the Pershing; this was in the summer of 56, and the Continental Mark II was so new, no one had seen one in the flesh. While I never saw Dinah Washington in the flesh, I still remember her car. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Mark_II I'm treasuring that memory, as I listen to Dinah; she could sing it all, and do it like no one else. While most of the other Diva's are best known for: gospel, pop, blues, or jazz; Dinah could do it all. "What a Difference a Day Makes", was her pop contribution. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhaBIlWPxfo Her voice had a quality of deep longing, "Saudade" is the word in Portuguese. It has no direct translation in English, but suggests a deep melancholic longing for an absent something, or someone that one loves. It also carries the repressed knowledge that the object of longing will never return. While no matter what genre your preference is, you'll probably find something you like by Dinah; my favorite is "Invitation". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyp1yvSBq5I Picture this, you're at a bar you come to and listen to music to unwind. About four stools down there is an intriguing lady that attracts your attention. In order to be unobtrusive, you look in the mirror behind the bar at her reflection, and your eyes meet; that's when you smile. This intriguing lady finds you equally so ..... "Stardust", is one of the most popular songs I can think of, but when Dinah sings the song, it takes on a new persona; here's "Stardust" by Dinah. What are you're favorite tunes by Dinah Washington? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sopS-c1ca4E Enjoy the music. |
Learsfool: Wow!! You are in a tough arena!! You answered the question I asked and all the ones that arose from that answer. very thorough! left me question-less! I suspected it was as you said. A person has to be really dedicated and be able to earn a living until, say, the guy on third trumpet keels over. Comparing it to acting is very accurate. Thanks for your time and sharing your expertise with us all. Can't wait to read how one becomes a conductor. I will find it facinating that one system could accomodate such a wide variety of personalities. With folks like Bernstein and Karajan on the loose, How did a guy like Bohm get a job. :) Thanks again Cheers |
Hi Rok - I will now try to answer that third question, about orchestral vacancies, turnover, etc. This depends a great deal on the level of orchestra. if it is what I called a "destination" orchestra, like the Chicago Symphony and the like, then once one got a job in one of those, you would never leave, until you retired, unless you happened to win a position in another equivalent one. Or say you had a section job in one, but wanted to be a principal player somewhere. That is the only reason one might make a step down the ladder. These orchestras have the fewest openings, so it is a big deal when they do, especially in sections with not very many people (woodwinds, brass, percussion). String sections have more openings, simply because there are many more people in them. So even the very largest and best orchestras still usually have at least one string opening per season. But there may be literally decades between one say principal oboe opening and the next time there is one in that same orchestra. At the other end of the spectrum, the "gig" orchestra made up of local free-lancers, turnover can be very high. They always have several openings each season. For those third or fourth tier orchestras, such as say Charleston, or Knoxville, or places like that, they will have more openings than the larger orchestras do, but still much fewer than a "gig" orchestra that only does six or eight concert sets in a year. So a musician can almost never wait for an opening in an orchestra he/she really wants to be in. There may never be one in his/her audition lifetime! In general, aspiring orchestral musicians don't get to pick where they live - they have to go take the auditions where the openings are. When an orchestra has an opening, they advertise it in the musician's union paper (and nowadays usually on their website as well). Applicants send in resumes, and the audition committee goes over them, accepting some and rejecting most. Or they may have some candidates make preliminary recordings first, to help judge whether it will be worth their time to hear them. It is very difficult just to get an invitation to some of the very biggest orchestras - often, you already have to have a full time job playing in some other orchestra before they will give you the time of day. Other orchestras, though, including a couple of the very biggest, will have what we call "cattle call" auditions - they will let almost anyone show up. It just depends on the audition committee of the orchestra in question. Basically, the only other profession as difficult and competitive, or more, to actually get a good job in would be professional athletics, or acting. And we don't get paid nearly as much as the athletes do, even though we are just as talented, and in fact use much weaker muscle groups that have to last for much longer careers. I realize that this post may bring up many more questions than it already answered - if so, I would be happy to elaborate. But I think it does answer your basic question. |
Is everyone familiar with the 'JAZZ ICONS" DVD series? New to me, and it appears to be great. Check it out on Amazon and you tube it also. This is one by Quincy Jones with big band. On this one we get everything. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmpwWYLMxYA A French Horn errr excuse me, Horn. Two females, one on piano and Melba Liston on Trombone Phil Woods when he was younger and much, much slimmer The tunes 'Moanin', (should make the OP happy), 'Lester leaps in' and several more good ones. This series seems to be worth checking out. Nice one by Monk aand others also. Cheers |
Rok, now that we got our Gurus back, all is right in "Jazz Aficionado Land". Frogman, When I bought "Mingus Ah Um" in 59, I was the only person I knew with an album by Mingus, and I simply bought the LP because I liked the cover. Once my group heard it, they were hooked on Mingus. Even noise was music to Mingus; tugboat horns on the river, bird calls, and all sorts of other sounds. "A Modern Jazz Symposium of Music and Poetry" is an album that reminded my mother of me, "Why don't yall just let me be cool"! Here's the Wiki low down on the album. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modern_Jazz_Symposium_of_Music_and_Poetry Here's "New York Sketchbook" from that album. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZTR60YlDtg&feature=c4-overview&list=UUERycULxw1_NJ4ux2nh-qgQ Enjoy the music. |
****He should rank at the top of Jazz composers. Right up there with Ellington.**** You're in good company. Gunther Schuller on Mingus' "Epitaph": "a musical summary of one of the great jazz composers of the century" ****How does he do that?**** You may find this of interest; by John DeCarlo (Jazz.com) "Mingus' compositional style matured in New York City during the 1950s. His recording ventures and regular workshops allowed him to thoroughly explore new musical territory, and to bring ideas to life that undoubtedly had been stirring in his mind. Like Ellington, Mingus saw the need to develop extended forms in jazz. He began to experiment by modifying conventional forms and finding ways to create the sharp contrasts and variety that became trademarks of the Mingus style. Examples of Minguss range and eclecticism can be heard in �Haitian Fight Song� and �Ysabel's Table Dance.� One of his trademark techniques as a composer was to create rhythmic contrast between sections of a piece by manipulating the time feel and groove. This technique can be found in many examples of his work, and can range from switching between walking bass lines to doubling every note, to more complicated metric modulations and superimposed rhythms. An element of his compositional style is the blending of measured against unmeasured space in music, to extend forms and create contrast. He often followed precise written and rehearsed passages with sections of undetermined length, employing set musical cues to provide a malleable departure from an established section. This is an idea that is quite prevalent in contemporary compositions, and often one of the only ways for a composer to achieve the desired balance between improvised and composed elements without jeopardizing the cohesive flow of the music. Another technique Mingus used often was layering many parts consecutively to build tension. In this practice, sections of a given composition consist of layered vamps or repeated musical phrases. One musician leads, providing an introduction, while the others gradually add their respective layers. This creates steady development and flow without departing from the original material. It also leaves standard devices for developing a composition untouched and reserved for other important moments. This technique can be heard on �Moanin�. Mingus used collective improvisations as a form of written texture. He would give his band members some kind of musical guidelines for a given situation, and essentially have them improvise counterpoint. While this technique may sound to some listeners as a contemporary device, it harkens back to the early forms of improvisation found in New Orleans jazz. What make this idea seem so fresh in Mingus' music are the arrangements and the musicians' more modern approach to improvisation, sometimes in an atonal context with complex rhythmic variation. He used this to increase tension and support the progressive nature of his forms. Into the early 1960s, Mingus continued to experiment with incorporating free improvisation, rich textures and color and variety through orchestration." |
O-10: Also listened to CD7 of the 100 best set. You are right about the sound quality. I heard bass on Jimmy Smith's 'Sermon' that actually startled me. :) I was at 'realistic' levels.:) I didn't think my Yorx's had it in them! Great tune, even if Coltranesque in length. Mingus' 'Better git it in your Soul' Wow! How does he do that! He should rank at the top of Jazz composers. Right up there with Ellington. And why don't we ever talk about Dinah Washington when discussing Jazz Divas? She has a very distinctive voice. Ray Charles was Ray Charles! The set gets better as time goes on. I now stay on the look out for similar sets. Cheers |
O-10: I listened to this yesterday. Ms Fischer is a great player and a FOX! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B56njjw1qtk Highly recommended. I also played Bach's Complete Brandenburg Concertos and the Complete Violin Concertos. Played by I Musici. One of my favorite groups. Has Maurice Andre on Trumpet. :) This is one of those Philips Label TWOFERs I spoke of earlier. Great music and a Great bargain! Clair de Lune? Again, it's one of the most beloved tunes. Great clip, but short. If I have it, it's on some sort of complilation. Stop cherry picking and git yourself into some Bach! He may have been the first Be-Bopper! Or first 'Third Streamer'?? :) Cheers |
Rok, here's another Classical piece that I like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ip64cG7gK4 Enjoy the music. |
Learsfool: Thanks for the post. That was very interesting. One of the reasons I ask all these questions is that, of all the different genres I listen to, and I listen to them all, I find Classical players the most interesting. I guess because they are the most anonymous. The Conductors and the singers get all the glory and recognition, but the players make all the magic. They also look and act so 'normal'. Could be the guy next door, or someone's Grandma. And the ages vary by a larger margin than most other musical groups. I often wondered what they, and their careers / musical lives were like. I looked for the Horne CD on Amazon. I think I will have to settle for a used copy. "like New" :) It's a 3 CD set, so that means the complete Opera. I usually like the 'highlights'. But, if you say it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, I will have to get it. I looked at all my Operas on LP today. Gotta love that cover art. Nothing by Horne, although I do know of her. I have several with Beverly Sills, my first favorite. Street wise NY babe. I did wiki Horne. Interesting life. Thanks for the tip and info. Cheers |
Hi everyone - I can't resist commenting on the Carmen. One of the very finest recordings of this, both from a musical and an audiophile standpoint, is the live recording done at the Met with Leonard Bernstein conducting and Marilyn Horne singing Carmen. There is not a better recording out there. Horne is one of the greatest singers ever, and the sonics on it are incredible. On the DG label. One of the truly rare times when the greatest performance was also given the incredible recording it deserved. Rok, the snare drummer is often placed at the front of the stage in performances of Bolero. It is actually an incredibly difficult thing to do, to keep exact time for the entire duration of that piece, and it is physically very exhausting as well. So although it usually makes them much more nervous being placed in the front and center, they do appreciate the recognition that they have by miles the most difficult task in that piece. Rok, I think tonight I'll answer your second question, are people ever fired. The very short answer would be yes, it can happen. First off, after winning an audition to get a position in an orchestra, there is a probationary period. In many orchestras this is one year, though in some, it is two years. If the musician is not up to scratch, they are let go at the end of this probationary period. This happens from time to time. Once a musician is tenured, however, it becomes much more difficult to fire them for artistic reasons. Basically, there is a peer review process, much like doctors and lawyers have. It works much the same pretty much everywhere. If the music director wants to fire someone for artistic reasons, they have to first inform the musician of what the problems are, by a certain date in the season. Then the musician has some time to fix the issues. If they have not, in the music director's opinion, then it goes to a peer review board. This is the committee you definitely hope you don't get elected to every season. :) Usually the musician has the option to play for this committee, and they certainly have the opportunity to state their case. The music director states his/her case. Then there is a secret ballot vote. It takes a certain number of votes to overturn the music directors decision - usually, almost the entire committee would have to vote against the conductor to actually overturn it. In many situations, if the committee is very split, then there is another period of time that goes by, after which it is usually the music director's sole decision. This part of the CBA is by miles the most carefully spelled out, as you might imagine. Usually, though, things don't get that far. Often, the person in question might be asked to "retire", and offered some sort of financial incentive to do so. Another example might be a person who is in a principal position, and they don't want to deal with the stress of that anymore; they may step down into a section position some years before they actually retire. It is more common for someone to get fired for cause. For instance, someone in the LA Phil calling in sick, but then going to work a lucrative film recording session. Several members of the LA Phil have been fired for this in the last few decades. Musicians have been fired for alcohol/drug problems that affected their performance, in some cases even after being sent to rehab by the orchestra. I know a musician this happened to after he relapsed. Though the orchestra had paid for his rehab the first time, and had tried to help him, they did not do so a second time, and he was fired. He has since cleaned himself up, and is still earning a living free-lancing and teaching. |
You may find this video interesting; it ties together a few themes covered in this thread: the saxophone, Johnny Hodges, Frank Wess and his recent passing, and instrument repair technicians and their love for the instruments. My saxophone repair technician is the great Tomoji Hirakata in NYC. He was also Frank Wess' technician and I happened to be in Tomoji's shop when Frank brought in Johnny Hodges' alto (which he then owned) for an overhaul. It was easily the most beautiful saxophone that I have ever seen, and to hold and play it for a few moments was an experience that I will be never forget; to think of all the amazing music that Hodges made on that horn defies description. Tomoji made this video of part of the overhaul process (with some commentary by Frank) not only as a tribute to Hodges, but as a tribute to the instrument itself. It's an opportunity to appreciate the unique beauty of this particular saxophone and also to get a close-up look at the mechanical complexity of Adolf Sax's creation. Enjoy. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad_NFvmyPvA&feature=c4-feed-u |
Happy New Year to all! Glad to see the thread alive and well with some great music clips. Hadn't checked the thread in quite a while, and while not intending to post, this subject is a little too close to home to let a factual error slip by: The saxophone was not a French creation but the creation of Adolf Sax, a Belgian, who in 1842 moved to Paris from Brussels to demonstrate his new creation to his friend Hector Berlioz who went on to promote the new instrument. Sax's father was also an instrument maker, and Adolf's other major achievement was the development of the bass clarinet to, essentially, what we know today. Interestingly, Sax's first saxophone was a bass saxophone (in C). The instrument gained in popularity pretty quickly and it became almost "de rigueur" for major composers to use the instrument in at least one new work. "Bolero" was one of these with two saxophone parts usually thought to be soprano and tenor. In fact, the parts were written for sopranino and tenor. Due to the relative rarity of the sopranino and the fact that, due to its range, the sopranino has to "hand off" the last several measures of the solo to the tenor, it became common to play the sopranino part on the soprano which is capable of playing the entire melody. Good listening to all! |
O-10: *****Rok, after getting me into this Classical, Opera bag, you failed to comment on my responses;******* I did comment in my head, just forgot to type and send. The CARMEN piece was good. I had not heard it by this singer before. Her last name was von Manteuffel. That was the name of a German General in command oif one of the Army groups that fought in the Ardennes during the battle of the bulge. He was also an olympic Fencing Champion I believe. I wonder if they are related. I have many CARMEN's, my two favorites are by Callas and excerpts from the film featuring Julia Migenes Johnson and Domingo. Now that's a CARMEN!! I must get that on DVD. Once you read the story line, you will know why Carmen has to be a beauty, and Johnson is that for sure!!:) BOLERO, is as I said, beloved by all, except the composer. The clip you sent, Berlin/Dudamel, was very good. I see where the snare drummers were very forward. In fact they were in the violin section. I did not know they did that. I assume all orchestras do it given the prominence of the drum in the music, I just have not seen BOLERO on video before. The condutor, Gustavo Dudamel, is the lastest whiz-kid from Venezuela. He formed a youth orchestra in Venezuela that was very highly regarded. I hope he does not let fAME cause him to abandon that project. I have two zillion CDs with Bolero included. My go-to copy is by Orchestre de Pairs / Daniel Barenboim. It's French music, and they seem to play it best, to my ear. If you will notice from the clip, it's one of the few classical pieces with a part for saxophone. The Sax being a French creation, I guess Ravel wanted to give it a little action and exposure. The Carmen soundtrack I mentioned earlier is also by a French Orchestra. Again, French music. I liked the music by Chico also, but it was hard to concentrate. I kept expecting / wishing for Liz to have a ' Wardrobe Malfunction' . hhahahahah Nice clips. Thanks. Cheers |
Hi Rok - none of your questions have easy, short answers. I won't attempt to address them all in one response. I think tonight I will concentrate on the last three. #5 is the only easy answer. No one owns orchestras. Like pretty much all arts organizations, all symphonies are non-profits. They have to raise the entire budget all over again every single season. Ticket sales only account for a very small percentage of an orchestra's needed income - usually only about 25% at the very most, often quite a bit under that. OK, numbers 4 and 6 are directly related, as the main difference between the top tier orchestras and those under them is pay scale. They have the largest budgets, and can pay the most, so they attract the best players when there are openings. They are so called "destination" orchestras - jobs you don't leave once you get one, unless you move to another one of them, which does sometimes happen. As I mentioned before, all of the top tier orchestras have 52 week seasons, which is another difference. Not all of the orchestras in my second tier I listed in that previous orchestras have 52 week seasons anymore. Some of them have been cut back in recent years, sometimes justifiably, sometimes not. That's a whole separate issue I won't go into here. In all of the major orchestras (and most of the small ones, too), there are collective bargaining agreements, so no two orchestras will pay exactly the same or have exactly the same working conditions. There is always a base salary that most of the rank and file musicians (such as myself) make. Some orchestras also have a modest seniority pay system as well, but most of the people in any given orchestra are making the same pay. The titled people will make overscale, almost always based on a percentage above the base salary, though principals can often negotiate more. The concertmaster traditionally has a separate contract that is quite a bit higher than even the other principals. The music director (conductor), however, is not part of the CBA - they are always considered part of management, and their contracts have nothing to do with the musicians'. They also get paid far more. In the very biggest orchestras, like the traditional big five you mentioned, for instance, the base salary right now is in the very low six figures - not a whole lot over 100,000 a year. In the second tier orchestras I mentioned, the base salary might be about half of that. In some of the smaller (not full time) orchestras, say those that may play about six or eight concert sets in a year and are composed of free-lance musicians, the total pay might be just a few thousand dollars for the season. Musicians in these type of orchestras are considered "independent contractors" and have no benefits. They are paid "per service," one service being one rehearsal, or one concert. There are also some orchestras that have a full-time, salaried core of players, that are augmented at times by part-time, "per service" free-lancers. Different groups are structured differently, depending largely on budget size. So there are lots of different levels. I will address your other questions later, hopefully at least one of them tomorrow. |
Learsfool, in pursuit of the Horn and Miles, I heard "Birth of The cool" for the first time. I still can't believe Miles was that far ahead of his time. It's reminiscent of West Coast Jazz that didn't catch on until the late 50's. That would be an ideal project for Horn. Chico Hamilton also used Horn on some of his albums. This is some music that I think would be ideal for Horn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6uc2pssy34 Enjoy the music. |
