Looking for advise regarding Rogue M180’s

Hey, cool your doing the dark upgrades! I listen to the  Apollos regularly have them in a Bi-amp setup them on top and am amazed on the added resolution I get over the krell monos That I can swap in.

So Factory no longer send NOS input tubes thats okay, think they had Clear top rca and teles. I have over here Nice sweet 5751's sound quite good in there have them all as well  kt88 Gold Lion  kt90 Electro and kt120 Electro all have a certain signature the Gold lion are smoothest.

Please keep us informed on your factory upgrades!

@buellrider97

Cool! Man that Hera was a great deal, I would’ve bough it for sure. They’re hard to sell, but the sound quality you get for $2K is amazing. A hidden gem. IMO it showcases the 6H30 sound at its best - caveats aside (high gain, microphonics), in some ways I like it better than the much more expensive Audio Research Reference 6 (which also is a great manifestation of 6H30 sound). I just didn’t get that kind of "6H30" sound from the RP-9; must be the MOSFETs. I was certainly expecting it, and it wasn’t there - kind of a bummer.

Interesting about the report on Rogue’s Dark tubes - they couldn’t keep a large NOS stash around forever, so it’s to be expected. I think it’s more fun to roll your own, anways.

5751 can be a fun sub for the 12AX7 slots - they generally have a more precise, tigther image and better "clarity" and smoothness than 12AX7. 12AX7 tend have a bigger image and dynamic sound. At least that was what I found when rolling my original Apollos. Mazda Silver plate 12AX7 gave the best of both worlds, at the expense of a little extra treble energy (strangely enough, they have "T" plates like more 5751). Don’t get the silver-plate 5751 though - they’re brightness monsters.

As aforementioned, you can always sub 6189 and 5814 for 12AU7 slot. 5963 is usually too microphonic as a 12AU7 sub for preamp / phono amps, but it’s OK to use them here! The RCA 5963 are a nice tube for cheap. 12BH7 are more dynamic sounding and draw more heater current, but OK to use here too.

Enjoy! Hope your really like the Hera w/ 180 Draks. I know I would! I’m playing with Stereo 100 (non-Dark) and Hera in my 2nd rig right now. The ST100 is just a hero for its price point; such a fun amp and lots of tube rolling options - got Tung-Sol 7581A power tubes in there currently.

@buellrider97 message received, I replied with a separate message as Agon has the Cc policy I wont use nor care to for security reasons.  

Anyhow, reading the thread, IF you did decide to send the Rouge in, and you mentioned your others system with Zu's. Not sure if you plan to use those speakers or not.  

If yes, if you can, I'd stick with the Rogue recommendations to send, test, and dial in those amps with KT77s, [I'm a KT120 tube user btw], but like KT77s for this.  

If I could reconfigure my larger QS Mono 120s, dialed down plate voltage, and bias more, i'd likely be running KT77s instead as I'm like EL34s with a jolt, like KT77s.

If you do send/sent them in - they can bias the input, outputs, and check for noise across the board.  Getting the noise way down is key over which vintage tubes to use any more. Properly set up, tested, you could do fine with new/re-issue tubes imo. This granted you don't need extra power, no need for KT120s, go KT77s,  

@mulveling.   Hi, thanks for more info. FWIT, Bill at Rogue has the ST-100 Dark and Megapan 1.7’s. He likes the Dark upgrade and commented that it’s huge on the ST-100. The Hera has graded Upscale Sovtek’s but the owner can’t recall how many hours on them. Since they’re the second set I’ll use them for now. Those silver Mazda’s interest me, but they are expensive.  I have 4 Siemens Silver 12AU7’s I might try after the Telefunkens. My only concern is the middle tube as I have zero 12AX7’s. I want to get a pair of Tekefunkens and a pair of the lower mu replacements, not sure which and I’m reluctant to go on a spending spree. All my stuff is single ended and Bill recommend to use my current favorite cables. After I get going I’ll consider balanced. I have a loom of Morrow, and they have a generous upgrade offer. I’ll be looking at going balanced with Level 6 stuff. But they really take 400 hours and that sucks. So with the M-180’s coming back with a full set of current factory tubes, I’ll start there. Regards, Mike. 

@decooney  Hi , thanks for your input and I did receive the cc. The M-180’s currently have GL KT-77’s. I borrowed a tube tester and they are so low it advised replace on all eight. I tested the original KT-90’s and they are at about 80%, but one is dead. I tried the GL and JJ KT-77’s in my Had. I like the GL’s. My concern is how much bass they will make. I really didn’t plan on using the ZU’s but with KT’77’s could be pretty interesting. I’m hoping to be happy with the JBL’s, but they’re not a long term speaker. Im hoping to get a big wide sound that I can shake the house and annoy the neighbors. I’ll relive my youth and then look for something more refined. Those big Tannoy’s interest me but I guess I’ll have to go to Upscale to audition them. So keep it coming gentlemen and I’ll post my updates. Regards Mike B.