Magico S5 vs KEF Blade 2 vs TAD Evo One vs YG Kipod II Sig w/pwr bass

Onhwy61 - thanks so much - I posted on my phone and just noticed all the type-o's which just made my cringe but can't edit it now :( 

Thanks so much for the kind feedback! 

Shadome - thanks for the response. Do you think Magico S5 will be bass flabby? I don't know myself thats why I'm asking -thanks for the taking time to respond. 

Thanks so much Dave!

Thats funny I actually have not pulled the trigger on the Parasound JC2 - that's the only thing I don't actually own yet but was going to pull the trigger on it today - I'm running my Bricasti direct now and like it but want a pre and thought JC2 at $1700 was a good grab.

 I don't want to meas up this thread and talk about pres but I will run the few cheaper ones I'm considering for feedback if no one minds.

I'm thinking about the JS2 - I've never heard it in my system but I never got to buy stuff while getting to hear it my system. I'm not going to waiste a dealers time and doubt they can match the used prices. 

I heard the Sopra 2 wasn't really that impressed but maybe it was the system but I'm looking for more speaker.

Rockport Atria 1 is the same price also but thought that the S5 or Magico would be better. I wanted to ask about YG because it's $4000 less.

Regardless of what I buy I don't want anything damaged - scratch is no problem but a damaged base unless it can be ordered and repaired I wouldn't want to get it home and have it be broken that would bum me out too much. Is regular blade a lot better than Blade 2 in my medium room 12x23? I would think it might be kinda small for a regular Blade but really don't know.

The speakers and shipping are eating up so much of my budget I wanted to get a pre for $2000 or under as an alternative to running my Bricasti direct:

for pres under $2000 I was thinking

Parasound JC2 $1,700
Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE $1,200
Cary SLP-98 $2000
Modwrite LS100 $1800
CJ Classic SE $1000
Audio Valve Eklipse $2000
VTL 5.5 $1800

Dave - that info is awesome !!! 
I never thought about the high ceilings so thanks. Yeah they are high maybe 15-16 feet or so and I am on the long wall which is perfect and current set is Drivers 4 feet of back wall and about 8 feet away. I have Duel Sumiko S.9 Subs but really want to get full range and sell those but they are very good for their reasonable price.
Im on East Coast Boston.
please message me if those broken bass can be replaced and are same price as the used Magico  S5 then please pm me. 

Thank you so much your feedback.

I would buy Magico S MKII in a second the problem is that they are just about double the price of others because no used ones. There are some great deals with Magico S1 MKI around $10k but that speaker I would think is not in the same league as these others or is it?
thx 

That sounds pretty accurate I would think. I mean all you wrote is how you perceive the sound via your own experiences and nothing you wrote sounded like a criticism to me.

I have the space 12 x 23 with 15/16 foot cathedral ceilings - I am set up on the long way so tons of space to the sides and can have 4/5 feet out into the room so my room has the space for your description - I have 700 wpc/4ohm Pass Labs X350.5 that is warm and may work well with the Extemded Diamond tweeter - and I'm not a bass freak by any means but of course like every Audiophile love good bass and I don't listen at crazy SPL's - Low to mid 80's 98% of the time.

In this set up how would you think I'd like the S1 MKII compared to S5?

Is the new mid range and tweeter that much better?

i would guess the S5 to be a overall better speaker but really have no real idea?

Q3 or S3 MKII just way too much more money and would be off to the KEF Blade but I have a man crush on Magico's for some reason.  

The $10,000 is for Magico S1 MKII

I know the S1 older version is not worth that 

I was wondering I guess how the 

S1 MKII is verse the older S5

i know less heft bass and slam but was curious if anyone heard the MKII in the S1

the S3MKII is way more money 

I wish I could afford the S3 MKII or Q3 - thanks so much for the response though !!! 

To put in perspective - we are talking $10,000 to $14,500 

Here are the ones that have / are being considered.

I need a pre too so less on speakers leaves room for a pre :) 

Magico S5 - $14,000
Magico S3 - $11,000
Magico S1 MKII - $10,400

KEF Blade - $14,000
FEF Blade 2 - $13,750

Focal Sopra 3 - $12,000

Vivid K1 - $14,200
Vivid B1 - $6,000

YG Kipod Sig II Pwrd $10,000

Rockport Atria I - $12,500

TAD Evolution One $14,000

Revel Ultima Studio2 - $6,000

Raidho XT-3 $7,000

Verity Sarastro II - $10,000



if you guys had to chose right now what the best speaker for the money - the money matters but can afford any one on this list and buy them now - today - what ones - any jump of the page ??? 


Thanks so much !!! 

Leaders:

Magico S5
KEF Blade 
Sopra 3 - maybe I just like them for some reason but not at same level everyone likes to point out. 

Best Value maybe:

Varity Sarastro II - $10,000
Vivid B1 - $6000
Raidho X-3 - $7000

Decisions - Decisions :) 

Thanks Jim - appreciate the feedback!! WB - I should check those never thought of them. There is a pair on here - the model 60 or something with 60 in the name and he says only ones in US but seem older and kind of expensive but only because I know nothing about them!

thanks again. 

Lol... That's funny I thought you were killing the Blades - people either love them or hate them though that's for sure. I would have thought they would have more fans to be honest! 

As the prices I listed above show most are 40% to 60% off retail and I'm not going to go to a dealer and use them just to listen when I know I'm buying used for the simple reason of 60% discount is not something they could swing unless they had a trade and they are close enough which none are.

Dealers have it tough enough without me using a room a buyer from them could use but I do wish I could hear these with my gear in my room.

The thing I keep hearing about the Blades is too much bass - too bass heavy and the Blade 2 helped fix that but who knows. It could have been the room. I have the room for the Blades being 12 x 23 with 16 foot cathedral ceilings set up on the long wall and I love imagining. 

Blades are in the race!

thanks so much for the feedback - it helps - maybe I shouldn't listen to people and have their input effect my decisions but I do and especially when I'm buying em blind.

Live without a net - well at these prices if I hate my choice I should be able to get my doe back to put to another but reaching out to all the aphiles on here to try and avoid that if I can.

Thanks all! Keep the feedback coming please !!! 

Thanks and I totally agree. I actually put a stop to the SS JC2 pre. One of the guys responded to me earlier saying a similar thing and I totally agree so I nixed the SS pre. 

He recommends the real warm Cary SLP-98 which is nice device or a CJ ET3. I have always been a fan of certain brands for certain things. I love Nelson's warm and transparent SS amps and been a fan of BAT preamps.

Been thinking my Pass Labs X350.5 might match up nice with the reasonably used priced BAT VK50SE which seems to go for around $3k used. I say this pre because I know it is a pretty dynamic and neutral pre for tubes but it's tubes. Think that might be a good match for the money?
Thanks 

I thought about the Revels Salon2. I mentioned the Studio2 because for whatever reason they 1/2 the price on the used market to Salon2 and certainly not half the speaker which messes them up with me. Also

The Salon2 is only $1000 to $1500 less than:

Magico S5
Kef Blade 
Rockport Atria 

and I would rather have one of these 3 above. 

I love the look of Sopra 3 in one of their cool colors and they can found for around $12,000

Are they really as bad as everyone says?

ive heard they are a good party speaker and decent but not a legit hiend speaker with the genuine resolution and over performance envelope of the 3 listed above or the Salon2 or even Sudio2 for that matter?

People real serious about high performance speakers seem to hate them so thought to ask. Not hate them but state they are no where even close to a Magico or Rockport or Blade. Too bad they look awesome I think in red or orange would be cool! 

Ddriveman -

if you read a bit earlier (not sure if you did) I wrote how the Rethm Saadhana V3 are absolutely amazing loudspeakers. World class! They are incredible and the best speakers I've ever owned or really ever heard and Ive heard a lot but so many in crap hotel room like all of us so that doesn't really help but still outstanding!

Fantastic speakers but I'm just looking to make a change but I'm no dummy (well maybe I am) and I'm covering my back side because they are too good to take the chance and I'm keeping my Rethm's in case I like them better than my new ones. Then I'll just flip the new ones.

Much less stress that way! Then I'd be traveling and forced to go to dealers to listening in fear of screwing up. Got myself a little insurance policy! 

That's why my audio funds are so tapped out and I'm scraping the bottom barrel to scape out a bang for buck preamp. I kept my old speaker. Instead I sold my TT, my Carts - had some good ones, 4 amps, linestage, phonostage, CD transport, extra cables and scrapped up every nickel. So I could swing keeping both sets of speakers at the same time.

The goal is for me to love my new speakers then sell my old speakers and probably upgrade my amp and get a good Pre or just get a Killer pre and maybe a modest table. VPI Prime Signature or something decent but nothing crazy. Tables can get crazy quick! 

With my Rethm speakers - when I bought them new I was so amazed by them I ordered an extra pair of $6,000 drivers still in wooden box never touched. May sell them or include when I sell my Rethm's but they don't sell these drivers and they are incredible. The best full range driver there is in my opinion.

I had tons of awesome - awesome amps for my Rethms - esoteric SET gear like Triode lab 2A3 - Yamamoto  45 - Fi 300b - Audio Note 300b - First Watt J2, F2J, F5, Bakoon and others. All were great! 

The Saadhana speakers are absolutely incredible but I'm getting the itch and looking to scratch it.

Rather then high efficient speaker with low power amps I'm taking a trip down the other end of the spectrum and going for semi-low or much lower efficient speakers and high power amps. 

Gonna tryout what the slam - multiple driver crowds been digging! Get me some good full range slam and some hard core SPL's but doubt I'll listen loud often. Not really my thing.

You know how it is. Just because you have a vet doesn't mean you drive it hard and fast all the time. It's the some of the time when you want the horsepower and you get the urge to stomp on it - it's there and I've got the urge but make no mistake I am fully prepared / hope not but prepared for my Rethms to wipe the floor with whatever I buy.

Thats why Im trying to get a really good speaker so it has a fighting chance against the Rethm's.

I got the Pass Labs beast to go with my new speakers but you know what the crazy part is? It sounds fantastic with the Rethms. Much like he First Watt J2 just not as lush and as warm. The J2 is a flat out tube amp made out JFETS. No idea how he pulled that off but thats why he's the master. Love Nelson he's the man. Wicked good guy! Email him - you'll hear back in 10 minutes - guys the best! 

Thanks for the response and feedback guys - it's helping - keep it coming! 

Guys my room is bigger than I thought. Kind of psyched about that.

Guy here helping us with getting a kitchen island he had a big enough measure tape.

25 x 14 feet with 16 foot ceilings that have what looks to be 12 pitch. He said ceilings are high - maybe 17 feet so my rooms a bit bigger.

Right now tweeter to my ear in sweet spot is 10 feet out so it's a bigger room - not huge but big enough for Blades or S5 or any full size I think. 

I know - I'm worried no doubt. I've thought of horns for sure - it's the only speaker where my wife was like - really - are you serious - those are the stupidest looking things I've ever seen / shes not an Audiophile at all but supports me in the hobby or should say accepts it / she thinks I'm nut...lol / she loves music though / hates the Blades also :( / I just got serious with a dealer on these and wasn't having it / I mean I still could get them but it's the family room where everyone hangs most the time so I try not to be to unreasonable / she didn't really like the Rethm's either / she loves the Magico S5's / she said those are the best / the look like big regular speakers / get those / ever since she killed the Blades / the S5's are out front in the lead / I would have never thought I'd love a 700 wpc SS amp 4/ohm amp either but it my all time favorite amp. 

Kaiser Chiara

What are those? Why do you think I would like better than Magico S5?

I mean I love my Rethms but I also open minded and have heard many speakers that sound great?

Curious and thanks for the input.

Thanks 

Sonus Fabre Strataveri Speakers

i have an offer for a pair of these for the same price as Magico S5's?

What do you guys think?

Ive never been a Sonus Faber fan other than the looks but my buddy said these are different and very special speakers?

Can anyone provide any feedback! 

Clayton and Vac - sweet combo, I love Clayton amps. People cry about a little hum but who cares. Hardly no one else gives that much Pure Class a power so there are trade offs for everything / I know they have fixed much of that now but that's is sweet sounding stuff. I think Pass .5 amp have that sound also - the Pass maybe a bit cleaner and more extended but both very much to my liking. I don't think VAC has ever made anything that doesn't sound fantastic. Sure the older stuff was more tubey but you can say that about any of the great tube making OEM's.

My wife took the KEF Blade out of contention which is a shame because I liked the idea of them a lot.

She saw them then said - what - are you crazy. 

I love them but we Audiophiles tend to look at the world a bit different than everyone else I guess but I loved them. 

Had a great dealer that spoke earlier on this post that offered me a great deal but it's looking like Magico S5's.

GUYS / GALS NEED YOUR ADVICE PLEASE!

A friend said this preamp is outstanding and will sound great with Pass Labs amps and to not get caught up in the specs but the measurements say different.

Pass Labs X350.5 amplifier with input Impedance 30k ohms Balanced or 20k ohms Single ended*
(*source Pass Labs Manual)  

Hovland HP-100 source impedance 2500ohms*
(*source Stereophile)

Guys / Gals, can I used my Pass Labs X350.5 amp with Hovland HP-100 preamp? Has anyone used Pass amps with Hovland pre's. I will be using Magico S5 Speakers and Bricasti M1SE DAC but want it to sound the best it can. Should I just stick with the Aesthetix Calypso pre I was leaning toward before my gut said to go for the Hovland HP-100

Hovland HP-100 Preamplifier: * Output impedance: approximately 2500 ohms or according to Atkinson, Hovland HP-100 (2500ohms) its source impedance was high at 2.4k ohms, rising to 4.3k ohms at 20Hz. The partnering power amplifier would best have an input impedance of at least 47k ohms if the bass is not to sound lean*. The Pass Labs doesn't meet the x10 requirement it is supposed to but it is sort of close when looking at it. What do you guys think? I am not sure what to do but you guys will know what to do?

I posted in the preamp section but wanted to ask you guys also as many know the Magico speakers and they say the sealed box bass can sound a bit lean so don't want to add to it with impedance mismatch with pre and amp but also the numbers are not terrible so maybe you guys can give me some advice?
Thanks 

Well I really like the Magico's but I am listening to them not set up properly and only for about an hour or so and I'm sure they will sound so much better once settled and matched up and set up properly. Plus my Rethm's have been optimized equipment wise and tweak wise over the last year to perfection so certainly not a fair comparison. 

That said I am not speaking about artilcles I read or hearing speakers for a couple songs at shows.

I own both of these speakers and both are in my room with my own gear and trust me my taste is just regular like anyone's - no special taste or preference from the standpoint that great equipment sounds great and better equipment sounds better.

I've owned Wilsons, Revels, Kharma, Ascendo, Sonus Faber, Harbeth, Merlin, Dynaudio, Audio Physic, Focal, B&W, Martin Logan, Magnapan, Quads and many others and many different models for many of these brands. I went on a tear a few years back. Amps did the tons as well from the Big Class A Krells to the buttery smooth Premier CJ's and much of everything in between and I certainly don't claim to be an expert or pro on any of it but I can speak of it from a first hand ownership experience and what I am quite confident speaking to is when something clearly - not subtle but clearly sounds better than something else.

Not to just my ears or in general. Some things are just better. Not warmer or brighter - I am not talking small nuisances I'm talking Flat out - smack right between the eyes - better - simple stuff really - no goldern ears needed. Better is better. Other than these Magico's the Rethm's were by FAR the best speakers I've ever owned. I can tell right now they floor the Magico's in imaging but imaging is just a small part of the whole. My gut says the Magico's are an overall better speaker, more refined, more sophisticated, more bass, more slam, more of everything but I've got some work to do to get to that. The Rethm's are not about to just lay down I promise you that. They are to dang good. That is why I chose such a good speaker in the Magico S5 because I knew it would take an outstanding speaker to better the Rethm. I want a better / improved pair of speakers and knew I needed to step us based on all the former speakers I've owned and what the Rethm's did to them. I knew It would take a very special speaker to beat them and I think I accomplish just that goal.

Thankfully I might add but these Magico's seem like they would benefit from some tubes and I think the BAT VK-32SE is not a slouch of a tube preamp. It's pretty dynamic and extended but has tubes.

I'm still considering Ayre K-1xe and maybe even a Pass Labs XP10 but I think the Ayre is probably a better pre but not positive. I think my pre choice is going to be pretty important getting the most out of the Magico's inline with my presence.

That's said I love the Rethm's with my Bricasti direct as it has grown on me direst to my Pass Labs X350.5.

To another point the Rethm's are not Lowers in a fancy box. That was the old model. They make their own proprietary drivers partnering with an Indian driver OEM and they are incredible.

Everyone that has heard them in my room were blow away by them not just me. A couple well know OEM's, a couple NA Distributors all were like wow I never these things sounded like that. Most people think they are just Lowthers in a fancy box but nothing could be further than the truth!

guys - BAT VK32SE or Ayre K-1xe

or maybe Pass Labs XP10

Would love some feedback!!

thanks 

Thanks so much Dave - I'm psyched !!! They are pretty awesome!!! I was on the speaker go round a couple years back and just couldn't find a good match! Seems like I nailed this one right away! 
thanks 

Thanks Shadorn,

I guess you guys are right - I just never looked at it like that but I am learning and even now from this post! Thanks for all the great feedback.

For me if it's a single paper driver cone with wizzer in plastic PCB pipe or Aircraft Alluminum alloy with carbon fiber and Beryllium drivers its still all about making music that comes out. 2-watt SET amp or 700 watt SS amp it's just what does the music sound like and what one sounds better. Not different everything is different but what's better. Not to my ears or preference but objective what sounds better is what I ask? 

The rest is just the rest and if I just listen and let me ears do the decision making then I'm good. 

These sound more alike than different which is the crazy thing. 

I could go on all day cataloguing the difference in our Audiophile terms and that would be fun and great but for me the question is what gets you closer - gets you right in there - right there or right up to it as close as possible and there are so many different ways to get to the exact same place is how I see it. The journey is fun also! 

HELP !!!!!!!!!!! 

Magico owners, fans or anyone that can help? 

I am told Magico can be super revealing of a problem or weakness upstream which is fine is that is what it is and when you know the weakness???

I am so bummed out!

Shoukd say super bummed - got my Magico S5 set up and I mean everyone says how incredible they are -

I mean I don't think any of these are big time bottlenecks or weakness causing system sound problems being exposed by Magico or are they??? 

I have a first rate source - Bricasti M1SE - first rate amp - Pass Labs X350.5 which is known to be a pretty warm amp - HiDiamond D8 Speaker Cables which are not Nordost Oden but are very nice copper cables that cook over and over to get all impurities out of when they manufacture the cable and are quite compitant, Verestarr Grand Illusion Signature IC's which are also very nice and even a bit warm and these Magico's are burning a whole right through my head like a lazier beam.

 I've been setting them up and measuring and tweaking and they are giving me a royal head ache now?

How can this be? I spent a ton of money and time and was so looking forward to these?

These are top rate speakers? They make me want to buy a Cary preamp an old school CJ tube amp and get Cardas Golden Cross Cable Full Loom? Which I can't do and I'm sure would sound like crap?

Even my non audiophile wife said these don't sound as nice as your other speakers - how come? Msybe she sensed it from me but I'm like - really ?? 

Any advice? Maybe my brain needs to adjust but there is going to be some serious adjustment- my last speakers were total opposite of laid back - they were ultra revealing but I wasn't expecting this?

Bummed to the extream but also hoping a tube pre and maybe a cable change can get these to settle down?? Maybe need to be driven a while also? Just back from Magico and had some service so maybe some new parts or something needs to break in??

I ran them low volume 24 hours before any critical listening if you can call it that? I need to do something and change something just not sure where the heck to start ??? 

I have no room treatments - my room is decent size though / 24x15 set up on long wall with 16 foot to the peak cathedral ceilings - you can click on my member id and see my room with old speakers - tons of room on both sides of speakers and side walls and plenty behind them also. I'm thinking my pure silver IC might be the culprit - I plug my Pass Labs X350.5 straight into the wall - that's what Nelson says is best / for everything else I use the decent HiDiamond HDX2 which uses good parts and good copper cable - same as my speaker cable - my power cable is one of those super open ones also the Veretar Grand Illusion II / so thinking the Verestarr cables might be a bit much but not sure / pricy trial and error process here that's why I'm asking for help! Thanks !!! 

Shadorne - I was thinking that but these came directly from Magico. I called them spoke to them. He was like they were here 3 days ago in the lab on the bench and they told me they are perfect - and test perfect. He said they seemed like they were hardly used at all - basically like new and told me everything is perfect with them. No I don't listen loud at all and most always under 90spl. Avg like 86-87 - just not into loud except once in a while - maybe pop up to 89 but rare over 90.

i think they hate the combo of my DAC direct to my amp and hate my IC and PC to amp. I think they need different and balanced IC's to go with a balanced tube preamp and different Pc for pre and amp. 

Not sure but hope this does the trick but also this is not a cheap bit of changes needed either. This group of stuff cost some doe and I wasn't expecting it all :(

I was hoping they would sound good - different but good but not the case. I had nothing to do with my old speakers or what I'm used to. Any person after 2 minutes will say yeah Houston we have a problem here... 

Hey guys - I have an update - I updated my setup advice post and wanted to share with you guys as well:

  UPDATE:

Ok so I am trying out some different - well matching cables tonight guys! Psyched !!!

My local Magico dealer - the great folks at Goodwin Audio in Waltham, Ma are letting me try out some Kubala-Sosna Expression Speaker Cables and a pair of Balanced Interconnects tonight.

I am pretty excited about this. They tell me they have used Kubala-Sosna in their demo rooms with Magico and used these exact cables with S5's in the past and they know for sure they are a good match so this gets to help reduce some variables here which is awesome!

I will try these tonight and update you guys. So hope they help!
 
Also, if these don't do the trick or at least help go in the right directio Goodwin will send out a Magico guy to come over my house and check everything out and help me with set up and listen for themselves to help figure out what the problem/s are, offer me some ideas and help me out.

How are awesome are these guys? I couldn't afford to buy new Magico's from them but I can buy some cables and pay them for their service to help me so I am pretty excited. They have been awesome! This is a great dealer and I am very thankful. They as well as you guys have really reduced my audio anxiety - well for now anyways :)

I'll keep you posted. Too bad I can add pics on here?    

Hey Guys - the Kubala Sonsa Expression were not good enough cables - not bad at all - HiDiamonds were better even though bright! 

I love CJ preamp but everyone says with the Pass Labs X350.5 they are best run Balanced - do you guys are?? 

Was thinking BAT VK-32SE and Cardas cables and IC's?

thoughts?? 

Have been running my Magico S5's for 5 days straight. During the days while at work been putting some volume into them.

Goodwins tells me they are not broken in. They are I think the First U.S. Magico dealer. Thought buying used I'd be good on that end.

The original owner said he didn't use them much but I assumed that was meant as relative term not a literal one. Goodwins tells me the Magico's need the break-in much more so than other speakers. They said they don't even listen to them until they have minimum 300 hours on them and they actually need quite a bit more until they settle in the 600 - 700 hour mark. I guess the tweeters and those carbon fiber nano tubes take forever to settle-in. Any other Magico owners experience this with their speakers?

Well yeah that would be great if I got to listen like that. Maybe when I'm retired and my kids are all gone though college and out on their own which won't be for some time.

Out of those 600 - 700 hours maybe 5 - 7 hours would be me actually listening to them so heck yeah if I listened to anything that long I'd know it pretty well.

I wouldn't know myself - these speakers are all new to me. Just what I've been told by Magico dealers and 2 owner. Would love more owner feedback if any out there can share??

One owner said north of 500 and the other told me around 300 but it's the dealers that have broke in a bunch of them and I'm sure have a better feel for how they evolve that I tend to put more weight behind.

Neither batted and eyelash - these are flat out bears to break in and their sound changes a great deal - tight / bright / analytical / thin in the lower mids - that is the textbook unbroken in sound of Magico but that all changes or so I'm told!! 

I probably have a couple hours listening only myself - been traveling for work but that time is not wasted they are burning in 24 a day which is nice and some decent volume during the day time. 

What do you own that is so much better than my Magico S5's?

I mean they are only $30k speakers so obviously $100k speakers will be better but now let's compare those to Magico's $100k builds? 

Maybe they do take a long time to settle in - maybe not - who knows - this is my first go round with Magico's but as far as them having terrible engineering and terrible build quality - that's a joke !

I've never seen any speaker built like these speakrs. I mean - I'm not a zillionaire so maybe you have much better speakers and to you my Magico's are nothing? 

These are the best I've ever owned by far! This is my personal high water mark for build quality.

These are built out metal and are 200 pounds and Magico seems to use top quality parts and materials in the cabinets, crossovers and drivers. 

Maybe the sound is or isn't for me only time will tell but these have such an amazing quality build quality that I've never known. I'm certainly no expert but everything about there speakers exudes world class build to me but maybe I'm out of my depth. 

Im hoping maybe someone with more Magico experience can chime in about them?

Thanks 

Thanks ebm - appreciate the feedback a lot !!!! :)

Those Q3 look amazing. Would like to think those are my next stop down the road in a few years. Maybe if a MKII comes out. That helped me afford the S5's when the MK II came out.

The Goodwins Guys said 600 - 700 hours they settle in nicely but they keep getting better longer :) - 

Dave / Audiotroy mentioned those bases as great upgrades for reasonable money. I'm gonna try them a bit down the road. I totally agree that they expose the weakness in the chain - maybe it's soley break in but I think my IC and SC are not good matches.

Do you use tubes anywhere?

I'm fixing to add a BAT preamp to scratch my tube itch? Curious what you use for pre, amp, cables?

Thanks again for the feedback! 

Thanks for the info Dave! Was thinking one of those mega systems some people have that I only get to dream about.  

ATC's are excellent speakers though. I've heard quite a few and liked them all. Especially the powered ones. Nice and accurate and precise and very linear.

Got a few hours in tonight with the Magico's. Starting to get a little more acclimated to them. One thing I notice is how other recordings I use to think were of decent and of similar quality sound so different from one an other now. Some sound so much worse and others so much better and some are amazing but they never stood out so different like that before! These are just such different speakers and I do like very much how the real good recordings are now amazing - I'm hearing stuff I've never heard before and man do they hold together - always. They are one stable and confident speaker. 

I wish - can you sell for $1000 plus Pass Labs X350.5 amplifier? 

Wanted to update my threads

Hey Guys - I borrowed an inexpensive tube preamp and man what a difference. My rig was screaming for tubes. So much so now I'm thinking about a tube amp also?

I know Magico needs / should have a SS amp. I only listen at normal levels. Just don't enjoy music real loud except once in a while. Do you think an ARC Reference 150 amp can drive Magico S5 Speakers proper at normal levels in my room? I just think for my taste with these speakers tubes can go a long way. Not quite sure that the ARC REF 150 is enough amp though? Thoughts?

Loaded a few pics of my re-fit rig that is starting to take shape. Have new speaker cables coming (Cardas Clear Reflection) and new preamp (BAT 32SE) and am considering trading my Pass Labs X350.5 and a few bucks for a ARC REF 150. Thoughts?

I moved speakers out to very outside edge of carpet that can be seen in 3rd pic or so and that helped a bit. Pics make them look closer together than they really are.

https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/5160

Thanks guys - latest updates - switching as much gear as I am can gets pretty hectic but I’ve got it tied up pretty tight sonically from a mental standpoint but it’s takeing some work but it’s fun and part of the hobby. The process of acquisition and liquidation in search of the ideal match is part of the gig. It’s all good! 

So I’ve beem running my Magico S5 Speakers all day - all night for about a week and a half. Not always loud as I’d like because of WAF but they’ve been running and burning in pretty good.

That said they absolutely are not broken in. Come to find out they had around under a 100 hours or so on them and many have said they need 700 - 1000 hours of break in.

Many people may not  agree but the oldest Magico Dealer in country has told me minimum of 700 but they also keep getting better up to about a 1000.

I’ve had numerous owners because of my posts reach out to me with first hand accounts and with different models and same model - newer / older / higher / lower and all say the same thing so I’m happy because now they probably have around a couple hundred to 250 hours on them and already the high frequency that was drilling into my brain has subsided but in all fairness it wasn’t just the break in.

I switched speaker cables and it made a gigantic / much more than Speaker Cables should kind of difference. My others were super bright but they were special also in their own super revealing kind of peel they layers like of way so I am kind of nervous because the new ones are a vast improvement match wise I might be giving up a bit as well.

Cardas Clear Reflection 3-Meters. I like them and they need to break in also which kind of stinks. Already would like a bridge closer to my old cables so maybe switching to the regular Clears but I’ll give them a chance to break in more first. I have a Cardas Dealer willing to give me what I paid for them toward a pair of Clears to no big financial penalty there either way.

To move to these cost me $150 and to move to Clears will cost me another $500 so good little jump there so I want to give these a good fair chance because many say they are VERY close sounding but the smidge cleaner or brighter might just be what the Dr. orders. 

That said I know I’ve thrown more variables into the mix. Oh well ;) 

I’m not a timid person and I aim to enjoy this hobby and even as others say I am doing too much at once and need to slow down and just do one thing and wait 2 months then do another.

I’m from an another camp. The camp that saws if it sounds like crap because it’s a bad match then try something else.

Simple stuff really. My ear, my brain then my gut all get together and if they reach a consensus I’ll run it up the ladder on here on the forum to get some objective or subjective feedback but in the end it’s the ears, brain and gut that are the final arbitrator and who’s decisions are binding and final :) 

That said I’m not buying everything brand new at retail prices either so I creamed on resale when a change doesn’t pan out - hence my lack of timidity as I hedge many of these changes by buying smart - if I think it makes sense to make a move I make it but also with an eye toward it not working with a built in exit starter and if it doesn’t I don’t - I try not to force anything and I let the equipment come to me so to speak and if it doesn’t work then we shall try another and move but I’m not throwing darts either. 

I try to buy decent enough stuff that it will work well with most gear to give myself a fair chance at having it work out. 

My BAT VK-32SE Preamp - is a BAT Certified Preowned w/1-Year full Warranty from BAT, has new tubes, optional phonostage and remote and should be here hopefully by Wednesday. 

Awe yes a new item. At the recommendation form on here Audiotroy told me how my HiDiamond HDX2 is more of a Network Distributor then a Conditioner and a high quality Conditioner for Preamp and DAC and my assorted Linear Power Supplies can really make a difference. I love my HiDiamond because it did no Damage but that’s also not optimizing anything. I got an incredible deal - one of my best scores I think on a PS Audio P10 which is exciting. This is brand new so more break but I’m excited because I have not really been using a geniune Conditioner so looking forward to that.

Also, got another great deal on a disc spinner. I have tons of CD’s and a lot of good ones but haven’t had anything to spin them in quite some time. Sever based Audio rules the day but I thought it would be cool to spin some silver discs every now and then and picked up:

PS Audio PerfectWave Transport for a great deal. If I don’t like it I’m sure I can get all my money back but I’m looking forward to trying it. It was well thought of a few years ago.

To fund there changes I’ve been crazy busy selling all my current gear, cables and the like on Audiogon. It’s been good. Stuff selling quick. Making a lot of FedEx and UPS runs but can’t conpalin. 

So burning in my Magico S5’s and Cardas Clear Reflection Speaker Cables and waiting on my BAT VK-32SE Preamp and my PS Audio P10 Conditioner and PS Audio PerfectWave Transport and really enjoying this hobby. Next week or maybe the week after depends on my current stuff for sale selling I’m going to upgrade my Bricasti M1SE DAC with their great new Ethernet based built in network sever player and life is good.

Wanted to give you guys a update on the my rig re-fit. Once everything is all broken in properly and matched up nice just right we’ll be ready for winter worth of some great music! Then when all is well it will be time to sell my old Speakers to fund my getting back into some vinyl as well but need everything else all settled first before slithering down that deep old rabbit hole :) 

Thanks guys!! 

UPDATE: I wanted to update my 3 threads. I appreciate very much all the feedback and help during this process. The folks on the GON are the best!

Guys my speakers were not even close to broken in. As in Brand New or very close to it.

Goodwin's told me this, they called it cold, and told me not to worry and promised me they would change dramatically.

You know how it goes though - you hear what you hear and that sort of supersedes everything else but I was trying to be patient although I'm pretty impatient by nature as my words have made pretty clear but I am learning and growing as an aphile.
 
I was inclined to be believe them as they are the Magico pro's but I was worried because I was so unhappy with how they sounded at that point.

I just didn't think when I bought a used 2 1/2 year old pair of speakers they would need Full Blown brake-in but I was wrong.

Also, I thought that even if they did need break in I doubted they would evolve so much to make that much of a difference. I hear all the talk about break in being over rated and it is more a matter of us getting used to them verse them actually changing but I also would think if anything does need break in it would be speakers with the CAP and drivers needing it.

All this said I am utterly amazed at how much they have changed. Sure I made a speaker cable change that made a nice difference but that is not where the true evolution was. I am probably around 350 hours on them or so and for a good 8 to 10 hours a day out of 24 for the last week and a half I have really given them some nice volume and some good old SPL's and given them a chance to stretch out.  

I am told the 500 - 600 range is when they really settle nicely but I am very impressed and so happy how they are evolving. now These are some very serious speakers. So much better than I thought they were going to be. PS Audio P10 landing today and BAT VK-32SE close on its heals.

As always I am going to plug my Amp via wall direct and hope to get a dedicated 20 amp set up for it and the P10 down the road in the near future but I am over the garage and getting in there means removing fire proof sheet rock etc so that may be a little while out.

Do any of you guys think it is worth plugging my Pass Labs X350.5 into the P10 or just stick to plugging into the wall.

Why did I chose the P10? Couple reasons is one many people like them and i got a such great deal on brand new one thought it was worth a try. Audiotroy told me a conditioner and another server are needed. Although I am pretty happy with my server but am open to new ideas and growing. What do you guys think?

Thanks

Shardorn - these are Magico Dealers and a large groups of other Magico owners that have consistently expressed this. More importantly to me is my own ears regardless of what you may think.

I’ve heard about you from other members on here -  you are a self proclaimed geniune Audio expert which I’m sure is true but I certainly am no expert at all but I am learning.

I like to learn and then share but always within it being just my own opinion which should be taken always for just being that. My profession is not Audio but rather it’s my hobby and I enjoy it but I’m not much more than a novice with some experience. 

I think the main reason many of the Magico owners have emailed me directly rather than posting on here is to avoid the negative people.

Me I’m an optimist - always will be no matter how many amps - Speakers - Cables I buy or own. 

I certainly don’t need an audiologist or the like to enjoy this hobby even if I do make mistakes along the way it is all good. This hobby is to reduce stress not induce it.

I’ve have gotten so much positive feedback and help from other Audiogon members I would never let the negative affect me. I like the hobby and this site way too much for that! 

I buy most my stuff as demo or 2nd hand from other far flung parts of the country mostly so I dont get to try out in my rig before buying. This approach is bound to lead to some mistakes but I can’t afford new prices of the stuff I like own so it’s no problem. I just learn and move on. I try to get the best gear I can afford that is inline with what I like.

Even though I’m just a simple, humble novice that mostly buys my gear second hard even I can tell that Magico makes some super serious audio gear regardless of what a much experienced audiologist might think otherwise. Those Q serious speaker might be calling my name in future! 

In all fairness to the Magico I think a more sober look at events needs to be considered. First - I’ve said over and over I am no expert. I make mistakes and am learning. Yes I have owned many half decent speakers and some decent components and a diverse bunch at that over the years but that and a $5 bill still isn’t buying me a large Starbucks coffee and a muffin.

Magico’s I’ve learned expose a weekness or mismatch badly and much more so than any Speaker, component or anything I’ve ever heard or known.

I stand behind my no expert claim but that said I can speak first hand to other Speakers I’ve mentioned before such as Wilson, Sonus Faber, Revel, Ascendo, Focal, B&W, Avalon, Merlin, Audio Physic, Martin Logan, Verity, Dynaudio and there are others I’m sure I just can’t think of now and numerous models from many of these brands but none are even remotely close to exposing a weekness or a mismatch like these speakers do.

It was an eye opening and a learning experience. If you have owned or listened to Magico’s in one of these situations then you know exactly what I’m saying and if not take my word for it - it’s not Pretty.

They are ruthless but I like it! They dig deep into that wound and poor salt right into it and swish it around. 

These Magico’s absolutely dispised the HiDiamond D8 Speaker Cables I had. Hated them! 

Combine this terrible match with my early poor trial and error set up that had too much tow in and too close together with wrong rake. These Speakers were not spread far enough apart (took me hours to dial these in, the smallest changes mattered not with bass but with the high frequency, the bass was always nice I just wasn’t and still am not used to it and combine these factors with not being broke in at all and the fact that my old Speakers had a pretty shelved treble. 

Since then I worked tirelessly to tweak them and dial them in and set up the rake property and covered up some of the bright areas in my room with treatments on the floors and walls like the guys on here told me to do. 

I purchased a much warmer, richer sounding pair of speaker cables. The Cardas Clear Reflection that is sort of a combo of the Clears and the rich sounding Golden Reference but not as thick and slow and still a bit warmer than the Clears. 

I added XLR pins to the Pass Labs X350.5. This made a big difference and again speaks to my not being an expert. Forgot about this and Nelson laughed at me and sent me out a set. He said no wonder your not happy with your speakers these amps absolutely need these pins when running single ended and they really liked getting the jumper grounding pins :) and so did I :) 

i switched the power cable on my Pass Labs to a not so hot and up front sounding cable. 

I let them run in another couple hundred hours but even better I put some real nice volume into them during the day. I would come home and be like oh that’s a bit loud...

Moreover, like I stated these now have very roughly 350 hours on them and they are much better. I am told many times over they get better with break in the 600 - 700 hour range and keep getting better to a 1,000 but all my worlds here are to them now at the 350. 

All these changes have effected the sound and it has not been breakin alone in a vacuum. The nice burn in time on them have them settling in nicely though IMO. I like them so much better and am really enjoying them. To me they keep getting better but thats I am sure contributed to me getting used to them also.

i have a tube BAT Preamp on the way and P10 Conditioner as well and I was hoping that to land today per Fedex and as the tracking said it would but it’s getting late now. I’m hoping to keep really dialing my rig chasing after my own sound like we all do and trying to get it just like I like it.

After these adds will come a couple pairs of XLR IC’s but want too see where I am sound wise and where I need to go with them first.

Someone said they feel bad or sorry for me or something like that.

Please don’t feel sorry for me. I just got home, ordered some take out with my wife, listening to my Magico’s and life is good. I’m happy. Much more work still to do on my rig but I’m not one anyone should be feeling sorry for. It’s all good :) 

Oh yeah - 2 SRA - Silent Running OHIO Class Audio Vibration Platforms for DAC and soon to get Preamp. Really liked what the SRA did for my Bricasti. Forgot about this other add. 

Shardone - I know what I wrote it’s my thread and my words - you don’t believe in breakin - you have made that point crystal clear on my thread over and over and over. We get it.

The thing is Magico’s’s not broken in and with poor matching cables were terrible and they drove me nuts. Not having the XLR pins caused some kind of ground or impedance problem or something that messed with the high frequency and set up was off and all that contributed. Learning process - I’ve said that like 50 times I’m on here to learn and get help from others. 

The big thing was break in and we Magico owners no what we know and we all know your thoughts on matter. Break in doesn’t exist in your ATC world - fair enough it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist in others but I get the feeling after all your reponses you take this as fact and you are right and everyone else is wrong?

Maybe - maybe not but I can tell that there were many things that contributed to my Speakers sounding poorly and most would support your argument but so what. My speakers are breaking in and sounding way better for it. 

Let’s get to the real matter at hand.

Your incredibly overrated and overpriced ATC Speakers.

Those are some of the ugliest and most boring sounding speakers on earth. So overpriced and so overrated. Talk about a stone in a lake drop in value once used. Why is that? Because they are so boring. Oh yes very accurate and very precise and very linear and measure perfect and are the most boring and ugly and expensive Speakers going. 

I’ll tale Magico’s any day over those overgrown professional studio speakers. Hahahaha..

Yes very expensive it’s just that brand does nothing for me. They are bla bla bla brand = ATC. Their amps sure great bang for buck and many of their less expensive speakers are excellent for the money but the flagship ones like you have for that money... Yawn yawn yawn... lol 

Kenm10759 - I thought long and hard about the Blades before pulling the trigger on the Magico's. What size room is yours. I was thinking my room might work but thought it might on the verge of being too small. Your hearing them in both too small and one much better is good stuff. What sizes where they approx? Thanks 

csmgolf - Well said and I totally agree with you. Some people if they can’t have the little tool put on it and measure it and then look at the results and analyze it then it doesn’t exist. 

I appreciate measuments and their critical role. Nelson says it all the time that his ear is the final binding decision maker. We are really just learning how and what to measure in so far as how much those measurements actually equate to actual better perceived sound.

How old crappy - well I shouldn’t say crappy but an old inexpensive Carver amp will measure better than some of the most beautiful sounding First Watt amps that Nelson makes. He finishes them up by ear with the help and guidenance of measurements but he is not a slave to them rather they are a tool he employ’s judiciously

He uses the measurements to get everything close and then tunes by ear. Sort of what we do. We get real good stuff and usually stuff that measures well and then we tune our rig the best we can with matching gear but we can’t even come to even agree on break in never mind actual design or tuning. 

Some people trust the ear. They believe in it because it’s not just the ear but how that ear provides sound and that sound connects and makes them feel a certain way rather than just listening there is an emotional connection.

With others none of that really matters but what’s on the plots and graphs and well the ear and the sound and the feel of the music plays a much more subordinate role to the science.

Fair enough - there is enough room for us all. 

I am more likely to believe something I can see, taste, touch, smell or hear vs what someone else says these things should be. I just experienced it myself why do I need someone to tell me about it and actually that it was not that at all and this is what that really was or should be it is? Does that make sense or as they say does that pass the smell test? 

Ok so I walk into a restaurant and I just tasted some new dish and to me it was flat out terrible. I just didn’t like anything about it. Actually I hated it. Made me nauseous :) 

Well that person just pulls out all kinds of proof from professional tasters and genuine French chefs and industry professionals and authorities on the matter they even did a triple blind scientific test to prove well beyond any reasonable doubt that what I just tasted was in fact was excellent tasting. I might be dumb founded and even question myself a just a little bit in front of all this proof to the contrary and wonder if I may even have a problem with my taste buds or something but only for a split second and then I’ll walk away laughing at them all thinking how crappy that food was and glad to let them have it :) and not doubt myself for another second :) 

pokey77 - thanks so much !!!

People like you and many others is what I like so much about this website.

I am learning a lot and genuinely enjoy the hobby. I am getting there. This has been a challenging but rewarding system re-fit. I wasn't sure the Magico's were going to be for me but much of that was me needing to fix my own mistakes while removing the mismatches, the weak links and of course the break in is really coming along nicely..

Another cool thing is Magico is following this thread and they have reached out to me a multiple  times with positive encouragement, advice, and made themselves fully available to me to help. They even offered to send out a Magico rep to help me out with set up and advice, etc.

Pretty impressive considering I bought them used but they still cared and it was genuine and legit. Just nice people that wanted me to enjoy their products.

Goodwin's my local Magico dealer has been great also. I tried out a few of their cables to try and settle things down and overall they are fantastic as well. I have done deals with them in the past and most certainly will again the future.

I didn't want to really bother either of them because I bought these used but their empathy and kindness went a long way with me. I thought everyone should know that this OEM and their dealers really care. 

These speakers now with all these advances are really performing like I wasn't sure they would. I am looking forward to injecting some tubes into the signal path but no longer see it as needed and part of me is now thinking maybe a more pristine pre might even be more ideal. (Ayre, ML, Pass type of thing) 

We shall see but if I feel the BAT is sort of dark or even slightly adds a vial then its not staying. I like the upward projecting my system is on and don't want to stunt that or worse go the other way transparency wise. I think the BAT can be nice and dynamic and transparent so I am hoping it gooses things upwards but we shall see. If it's not as transparent and doesn't dig as deep as I hope the dealer I got it from also has the Allnic L- 3000 MKII and the Levinson 326S that might need to be swapped in but I will give the BAT a good old kick at the can first though :) 

Hey guys - wanted to update you. I got the BAT VK32SE and my PS Audio P10 Conditioner from Fedex and have had a chance to install and listen a bit and these adds allow me to see right away where and how they fit or don't fit.. 

Like I said I am learning and working toward building my new system re-fit and figuring it out on the fly. I know I am going to make mistakes because most all my buys are without listening first. I know not ideal but also most items I am buying are used so that is sort of the price of this approach. Saves a ton of money but I also don't get to try in my own system first but also buying used and properly allows me to re-flip the items that are not the fits I am looking for.

This said here we go.

I know it is very early but right out of the gate the BAT is not for me. Great preamp and nice and warm and sounds great but these Magico speakers are so transparent and so resolving that they crave - require and demand nothing but the most transparent and neutral components in the chain.

The BAT just provides a bit too much in terms of moving away from neutrality. 

I now understand why all you guys want components that are dead neutral. I never got that before but I sure do now. Clear as day!

Once your system gets to a level of transparency where every little change really is highlighted and effects the whole you want everything else that is added to not take from that.

The BAT is sweet and has great bass and sounds great but I have been running my Bricasti direct and realize just how much more I appreciate that sound vs what a tube preamp offers.

Maybe another tube preamp that is more neutral would be more to my liking but I am on the transparency train now and its hard to add anything that doesn't help scrub that window clean and make it as clean and as pure as possible where the BAT added too much tint to that window. A pleasant hue of tint but I tint none the same and many of you told me this and I want the glass in that window as pure and as pristine as i can get it and would love help and feedback from you guys.

Many of you called this but it was important for me to try a decent tube to get that doubt out of my mind and sort of flush my brain of that idea. Sure tubes can add so much that is desired but in my situation the trade off's where too steep of a price for me and one I am not willing to pay.

What do you guys think?

I am thinking Solid State preamp. Ayre K-1xe or maybe a Mark Levingson 326s. I would love a Pass XP20 but none out there used and the XP30 way too much money and the XP10 might now be able to outdo my Bricasti direct. Decisions / decisions. 

Also, the PS Audio P10 is fantastic. I love it and it was a nice add on the neutrality and transparency front so happy about that. 

I am batting 500 liking 1 out 2 of my last changes/adds.

Also, on my new focused path of neutrality and transparency I am making another speaker cable change. I know a couple weeks is very quick for these changes but in light of what I have learned it makes sense to me.

I switched from HiDiamond D8 to Cardas Clear Reflection speaker cables. My main reason at the time was my speakers with the former cables were incredibly bright and I wasn't happy with my speakers and this cable change and the added break was very helpful to fix this.

The bottom line is the HiDiamonds and the Magico's were not a good match so I pulled the trigger and made the change. I went to warmer and richer cable which was a nice change but the cable is a warmer and richer cable. I want neutrality and transparency so I today pulled the trigger on a cable change.

I sold my Cardas Clear Reflection speaker cables for the same price I paid for them so no financial pain there but they did help me learn more about my speakers and my preferences as it relates to these speakers. Also, what drove this is my ideal cable came available so I pulled the trigger. These were more money than the Cardas CF cables. Not a ton more and but a few hundreds more not crazy expensive considering the buy sell road i take but I am hoping this will be a nice change because these are a more higher end cable and well thought of cable and are known to work great with Magico's

Kubula-Sosna Emotion 2.5 meter Speaker Cables. I am hoping these are great. I am hoping these and a solid state preamp rather than a tube preamp will get me closer to where I want to go. Both changes are chasing that neutrality and transparency goal. There is always the fear of going too far the other way so that is why rather than a Nordost or a silver cable I went with the Kubula-Sosna Emotion as they are known to be a musical cable yet quite transparent.


I think my guiding goals are now transparent, musical and neutral and in this order is this is what will drive all my future decisions and not sure I could own this so confidently without my trial error process of trying on this BAT tube preamp.

What do you guys think? 

Any good SS preamp idea's?

Any of you guys here these speaker cables I just bought?

Thanks as always for all the help. 

I just started a thread asking about these 2-preamps but you guys have been with me on my system re-fit and wanted to see if any of you guys had feedback on these preamps:

Esoteric C03 preamp or Mark Levinson 326S preamp

ANY FEEDBACK - THOUGHTS - IDEAS would be so appreciated.

Thanks - I’m a little worried that it is a bit dark but you are comparing to a great pre - do you think it will be a good amount darker vs from my Bricasti direct? I’m of giving a bit here to get more there if the sum of the parts are net gain? Would think it basically being the same price as Bricasti could be a nice ad and again ok with a little color but my Magico’s are breaking in nicely and combined with my Kubala-Sosna Emotion Speaker Cables there is NO MORE high frequency problems. I’m actually blown away by how good these Magico’s. I honestly didn’t think I’d get to where i am so I’m super happy in that regard but want that last link. That Preamp and pull it all together - to drive those dynamics and stretch that image wide and deep and provide some more air. I want that air and want to make sure it’s not dark or closed in deny that air. Heck that’s why we want SS preamps for the precision, air, dynamics, transparency and more focused imaging and deeper look into the music. Now I’m not comparing to a KXR but vs Bricasti direct. Do you think it can pull this off. A little color added in is just fine with me if it can pull the rest off. 
Thanks 

Thanks and yes I’m a bit concerned that the SC cables might cause that also :( 

I m struggling with that a bit also. It’s a tough balance. It’s like being on the point of a tip with such little wiggle room either way where just a bit too much either way and it slides too far the other way. How many darn cables can I go though... lol.

IC’s are different where they should not be but in effect are tone controls to a certain extent. I just want nuetral - transparent cables with a touch of warmth with air and space and extension without being bright - all seem either too much one way or the other based on if your using tubes or solid state. Too neutral is clinical and lifeless and too warm is colored and blurs with such a transparent speaker it can get tough.

Ive got a real good feel for where I am and where i want to go but power cables power conditioners IC’s SC’s DAC’s and preamps getting all right on point. Well that’s the gig right.

If the ML pre works out i should have the Speaker - Amp - Pre - DAC - PC’s - Conditioner all nailed down tight but SC and IC I think are going to need more time and more effort. Even IC I think can be last to dial it in a ways here or there but even though these SC’s I have now are so much better they are not where I want them - I’ve been lucky i have not been bit yet money wise as I’ve been able to flip through them ok but I’m bound to get bit sooner or later if I can’t nail a pair down soon :( 

Yes the Bricasti is staying - it’s the rock which I build everything else around.

i must say in my system i am really impressed with with my new PS Audio P10 Conditioner i just picked up. One few items I’ve bought brand new - the Bricasti I got new also.

it is great. A few years back i owned a PS Audio Power Plant Premier and thought it was ok but nothing special but this P10 is outstanding. It’s been a very nice surprise - i thought it would be a nice add and quiet things down but it’s done much more than that. Highly recommend! 

Never even considered these nor were they ever on my radar.

Not saying they are not great I have no idea but it was semi - sort of my view the KEF Blade (although the Blades are utterly amazing) where not saying it’s fair but those mass market companies can’t help but to cut cost somewhere and for me the final build quality matters.

Not as much as the sound but this is a lot of money for Speakers so when sound is too close to call then everything comes into play in regards to the final decision.

I hated the bottom feet area on the Blades - may not effect sound at all or overall quality either and may not even be a legit argument because those mass market companies have the R&D funds to built amazing sounding products but the bean counters always seem to slither in and find a way to save money on this or that and effectnthe final build quality perception where with Magico / YG would never put a plastic / type of base like that. They over build everything and let the cost just end up being what it ends up being or at least thats whats the final product feels like to me. 

The Sony - Pioneer - Yahmaha’s of the world just don’t work for me at but maybe for others I’m sure. Those newer Sony Speakers seemed pretty decent but I didn’t see them in the Magico / YG / Blades conversation.