Some history: I was the OP on a four year old thread about the Chinese LKS MH-DA004 DAC. It achieved an underground buzz. The open architecture of its predecessor MH-DA003 made it the object of a lot of user mods, usually to its analog section, rolling op amps or replacing with discrete. The MH-DA004 with its new ESS chips and JFET analog section was called better then the modified older units. It has two ES9038pro DAC chips deliberately run warm, massive power supply, powered Amanero USB board, JFET section, 3 Crystek femtosecond clocks, Mundorf caps, Cardas connectors, etc., for about $1500. For this vinyl guy any reservation about ESS chips was resolved by the LKS implimentaion, but their revelation of detail was preserved, something that a listener to classic music especially appreciated. I made a list of DACs (many far more expensive) it was compared favorably to in forums. Modifications continued, now to clocks and caps. Components built to a price can be improved by costlier parts and the modifiers wrote glowingly of the SQ they achieved.
Meanwhile, during the 4 years after release of the MH-DA004, LKS (now Musetec) worked on the new MH-DA005 design, also with a pair of ES9038pro chips. This time he used more of the best components available. One torroidal transformer has silver plated copper. Also banks of super capacitors that act like batteries, solid silver hookup wire, 4 femtoclocks each costing multiples of the Crysteks, a revised Amanero board, more of the best European caps and a new partitioned case. I can't say cost NO object, but costs well beyond. A higher price, of course. Details at http://www.mu-sound.com/DA005-detail.html
The question, surely, is: How does it sound? I'm only going to answer indirectly for the moment. I thought that the MH-DA004 was to be my last DAC, or at least for a very long time. I was persuaded to part with my $$ by research, and by satisfaction with the MH-DA004. Frankly, I have been overwhelmed by the improvement; just didn't think it was possible. Fluidity, clarity, bass extension. A post to another board summed it up better than I can after listening to piano trios: "I have probably attended hundreds of classical concerts (both orchestral and chamber) in my life. I know what live sounds like in a good and bad seat and in a good and mediocre hall. All I can say is HOLY CRAP, this sounds like the real thing from a good seat in a good hall. Not an approximation of reality, but reality."
@erniejadeThis first thing you will realise is the huge soundstage, the 005 projects a much bigger soundstage than many much more expensive DACs.
Expect a 6-8 week burn-in.
The 005 IMO is uncoloured and transparent so if your system is warm or cold it will reveal those characteristics. For example you use WW cables, they are very revealing, not wrong but revealing.
I wholeheartedly recommend the 005 and many will tell you in this thread the 005 never gets shown up by putting it with expensive components and cables.
Details galore on the 005. I find it a tiny bit warm and definitely not fatiguing. For the cost, it is hard for me to find any faults with the unit. I wish it was not so large, but it likely sounds so good because it is rather large and heavy.
I am considering getting the 005. I have had the Lks 004 in the past and while it was resolving, I found it a bit fatiguing. Currently using a Boarder Patrol se-i. Now the Boarder Patrol se-i has more bloom and 0 fatigue but, it doesn't have the resolution as the 004 did. Does the 005 fit the bill for something that's in-between? The bloom and oomph of the Boarder Patrol with the resolution of the 004?
Rest of the system is Innuos zen mk3, Wireworld Platinum usb, TAudioquest Thunderbird Zero RCA, T+A integrated amp, Wireworld Eclipse Silver 8 speaker cables into Tyler Acoustic Highland H2 speakers. I am also running an EtherREGEN on the Ethernet side into the Innuos.
The above was a really good technical description of a lot of the streaming terms that are tossed around. Galvanic Isolation, I2S, et al.
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APOS price matched the Shenzhen sale price for the Topping D90LE DAC I got yesterday. Loved the DAC with my not so amazing Schitt Jotunheim R headphone amp. I think the EtherRegen to OpticalRendu streaming has something to do with the great listening experience with the brand new RAA: CA-1a headphones.
I So I changed to the "all in one" setting on the ifi streamer & am now able to stream via UBS & Tidal. Still can’t figure out Roon & UBS so I am running that via RCA for now. Thanks for the suggestion!
Very strange Tim. Have you updated the Zen Stream firmware via the app? iFi was working on their full Roon integration *after* the Zen Stream was released IIRC, so perhaps checking if an update is available may help. Seems to me it has to be something about the Zen Stream and Roon working together….but why it works with a digital cable but not the USB is strange. One thing you know is the DAC and Zen Stream can ‘communicate’ via USB using Tidal, correct? So why not with Roon? As I say, I don’t use Roon, so cannot provide any experience with that in the chain.
@bkeske- So I changed to the "all in one" setting on the ifi streamer & am now able to stream via UBS & Tidal. Still can't figure out Roon & UBS so I am running that via RCA for now. Thanks for the suggestion!
I have tried the LKS USB Digital Interface (DDC) for a few days with the 005. In my set up, the LKS I2S ethernet input sounded slightly relaxed with a touch less resolution than the straight USB input. I'm not sure if I will keep the LKS DDC.
@ortodox
By USB renderer I assume you mean an ethernet in to USB out DDC. These are devices that can work very well. However they range in price from about $400 to over $11,000. Do it yourself versions based on Raspberry Pi computer boards can cost much less.
If you want advice I suggest you tell us more about your system and music. The more the details, the better can be the suggestions. Since you are asking here I assume you have or are contemplating getting a Musetec. Is that right?
Has anyone tried to connect a Schaffner filter (FN9260-1-06) to the power cable for 005?In my system, a big improvement in the image of the stage and I finally hear what the real recording sounds like.It is not expensive and the production of a short reduction is simple.Someone try it to confirm it.By the way, I also replaced the original power cord with a silver "Supra".
Thanks for the feedback on the low-cost DACs. I was fooled a bit by the photo of the 004. It did not look that large. I had a feeling the ARES II maybe too dark for my JR amp. the Schiit Bifrost 2 was also considered but I think some of the DACs I listed are more detailed.
I will go with the Topping D90LE (no MQA) since I know the sound (owed the MQA version before) and it is small in size. As I mentioned before my Schitt JR amp is not that great so I will be good with the Topping which is the lowest priced of all the DACs I listed
Ric Shultz pointed me to the Musetec brand during a phone conversation.
BTW - my friend with the great audio background told me that tomorrow he will be firing up my Musetec 005 when he tests a few amps that he has in his shop ready to ship to customers. I am really interested in his feedback on this DAC with his gear.
@yyzsantabarbara
I can only comment on the LKS 004. Here’s my $.02. I’m aware that sns has never liked the 004. IMO it is a very good DAC in its stock form, but it is not particularly small. If you look at the early posts at the 004 thread at head-fi, you’ll see its performance was well received out of the box. There was also a thread at Audiophile Style when it was called Computer Audio that covered the 004 stock favorably and in detail. Google will find some other stuff. At one point during the sales life of the Musetec,005 a used LKS 004 was a real bargain. It may still be. Were I to buy an 004 used I would make sure that it has not been modified unless you have great confidence in who and how it was done. I would look for one in at least its second series. That can be identified as having the 8 FETs on the underside of the circuit board where they cannot be seen in the usual interior pictures. Ric Shultz used to do a $500 mod on the LKS. That’s about the cheapest mod ever offered. He did not think very much had to be done. If it were mine I would shield the transformers from the remainder of the circuit--very easily done.
I had the Denafrips Ares II before buying the 005 and I was terribly underwhelmed and disappointed with the Ares II. It is veiled and dark in its presentation and I found it lacking in detail and especially the upper-mids and treble. I couldn’t listen to it. I am unfamiliar with the other DACs in your list, but I’m sure you can do better than the Ares II.
IMO, 004 requires mods. 004 is epitome of analytical dac, impressive resolution, not very musical, I would have to warm that thing up considerably. I had 004,005, Auralic Vega and Okto Dac8 stereo all in house concurrently, 004 least desirable.
I just tried my LKS 100 through RJ45 using my audioquest diamond. Melton is right, it is better than HDMI. The sparkle and detail I had with the sonore ultradigital is back, but with the relaxed presentation of the LKS 100 through HDMI. I'm happy with the change.
Fellow Musetec fans. I am in the need of a smallish DAC for my second office. I have a new headphone, the RAAL CA-1a that I will be using in this room with the Schitt Jotunheim R (RAAL only) headphone amp. It is not a great amp (6/10) compared to the RAAL VM-1a (10/10) for my headphones.
I was planning to use only a tuner with this system but last night I tried it out with my Benchmark DAC3B and it was good enough for the intended purpose.
So, I will put a low-cost DAC in this system Hopefully, not too large since I have limited desk space.
I was wonder if the Musetec 004 DAC in stock form is something to consider?
@ortodoxYou'll hear a multitude of preferences, doubt there is a single best. I use Sonore Optical Rendu, better than Uptone and SOTM devices I previously used.
usb connections for music is given a (rightfully) bad name by users with regular computers sending the signal - much can be done to solve those problems, and there are now ample well made network bridges and streamers on the market that do it right, and some at a very modest cost (not to mention usb cleaners...)
other connection methods have their issues... ethernet has noise issues, i2s hardly problem free either... anyone playing in the category of multiple thousand dollar dacs owes it to themselves to get the upstream feed clean and right...
btw, my 005 came in today, so beginning to listen and try to compare and discern...
Running usb direct out of vast majority of servers or any PC is why usb gets such a bad name. USB run directly off motherboards is noisy, noisy, noisy, one must clean via various usb renderers or get the rare server with internally optimized usb, generally going to be atx/windows motherboards with Pink Faun or JCAT usb board and external linear power supply.
Beyond that, I can only say 005 has first class usb input, where engineering budget went for inputs. I2S supposedly has an advantage in being native protocol within dacs. As for what input is best with any particular setup depends on level of optimization of said conversion used. With so many varieties of optimization within a single format available to end users difficult to even know if one particular setup is indeed optimally optimized! I arrived at my conclusion to use usb based on level of usb optimization within 005, and the level of sound quality I'm experiencing and have experienced via usb has left me with no motivation to try another input. And this having owned Singxer SU6, one of the better DDC out there, purchased and sold without even listening to it.
@budkine
I realize that anything that’s said here is necessarily system dependent and the use of the LKS 100 has already been discussed at some length. Without questioning lordmelton’s results I think it is fair to say that his is currently a minority view. Of course, that could change. But the 005 already provides the function of the LKS 100 (converting USB to I2S) with a very sophisticated power supply and upgraded clocks. There’s surely no harm in trying the LKS 100.
But you write that you are running from your PC straight into the USB on the 005. That is usually not optimal and can be improved upon easily, still into the 005’s USB. There are several other things you can do to yield better SQ. If you tell us more about your set-up (like what PC and program you are using on the PC and where you store music files, or how you stream) I’m sure folks will chime in with suggestions.
@lordmeltonWhat 5v power supply unit are you using for the LKS 100? And, what is the amperage?
Also, the I2s is noticeably better than through the USB input on the 005? I am currently running from my PC straight into the USB on the 005. It sounds very good through the USB, but if I can improve on that with the LKS 100 through I2s, I’m very likely to give it a try.
I have experimented quite a lot and RJ45 I2s is the best input on the 005.
It will need about a week to burn-in along with the LKS 100.
I can wholeheartedly recommend using WW Starlight 8 (Red) Ethernet for the I2s cable but it too needs burn-in time, so use it as an Ethernet cable for a week to allow it to break-in. I2s is only 300mv.
Once you're off the ground be interested to hear what other cables you get good results with. The I2s cable should be 0.5m or less. I tried a 0.2m cable and didn't like it, maybe it needs more burn-in. I will revisit it later.
PS Audio recommends 0.5m and I believe they are most correct in this matter, so far anyway.
Don't forget to disable PIN 1 in your USB cable, power is not required, put a small strip of electrical tape over it, better sound quality.
I received my lks 100 a week or so ago. Recall, I previously tried a singxer su-6, which I didn't like and returned and a sonora ultradigital, which I liked very much but also returned on the hope the lks would better it. Preliminary conclusions are the lks has a bit more ease and an ever so slight pleasing softness in its presentation, particularly on attack. It may also, however, not provide quite the level of detail as the sonora but I need to listen more. We are talking very very slight differences. I have used, thus far, only hdmi, a wireworld silver starlight, which worked beautifully with the sonora. I'm going to try a couple RJ45 cables to determine if and how they alter presentation in my system.
I also have a cisco switch on the way and may try its optical output.
@lordmelton, thanks for the recommendation on the cable - good info. My system is a bit of a work in progress, no optical isolation as yet. I have been reading the recommendations re optical isolation with interest, and am looking forward to adding an optical segment at some point. There are a few other 'opportunities' to optimize to address as well.
Fun hobby for me, no huge hurry to get to the end (or more realistically, the next level? ;-). This system sounds really good to me as it is and I'm enjoying music with it greatly, so it's all upside.
@fl_guyI bought from Shenzhen Audio too, just a plain white box, can't remember about the plastic!
Currently I'm using a 0.5m WW Starlight RJ45 Ethernet cable from the LKS 100 to the 005 for I2s. I've tried using the WW Starlight Platinum but it's too detailed in a hard/harsh type of way.
The Platinum is very well suited for your Ethernet between your optical device and your streamer/source. I guess I2s doesn't like solid silver cables.
Just noticed I misspoke in last post, meant to say OpticalModule to match my OpticalRendu. OpticalModule replaces generic FMC, less self generated noise and much better clocking with module vs generic. The Muon will replace two generic FMC PRIOR to server, comparing optimized ethernet vs optical.
As for DDC, I saw a Denafrips for sale at another website, looks to be a most impressive piece, even more than my now sold Singxer SU6.
Mine arrived recently. Haven’t really had a chance to check it out yet so don’t have any impressions yet (and I have only basic cables for it so far, so it will be something a process)
I ordered from Shenzhen Audio. Fwiw, mine arrived in arrived in a plain cardboard box w/ a return address in the US, no OEM packaging, and the inner wrapper / bag looked a little worn.
Melm, I've been experimenting with power supplies as well. Since sns was talking about the positive effect of them, I bought three 5v ifi iPower X's, & one Nuprime LPS-212 (12v). The 5v power supplies for the D-Link DGS105 switch, & the two Ethernet to Fiber converters. The Nuprime Linear Power Supply for the ifi Zen Stream. Nice improvement in clarity & sound stage. This is seriously approaching the sound quality of my TT now, & has surpassed that of my CD transport. Really didn't expect this level of SQ from streaming.
@melm,Yep, the 005 will expose virtually all changes. Try some quality ethernet cables, easily heard improvement over many generic iterations in streaming setup from many years ago, meaning I heard this in much lower resolution setup.
Update on 005 in my system, it only gets better with continuing burn in of various parts and components, now within 20-25 hours of what I'd consider full burn in. Re-dressed all cabling in system, paying extreme attention to separation and best routing, Reset of all streaming components with better isolation, footers and shelf, DIY Helix Image power cable to 005 changed to balanced configuration via VH Audio Airlock on both hot and neutral vs. only hot prior. Result is even more analog like sound, timbre a bit more natural, this is where the harmonic development kicks in, something I thought a bit lacking in 005. Seems I under rated 005 in this regard, expecting this only from much more expensive dacs. Greater soundstage depth another byproduct of these changes.
Continue to plumb full potential of this dac. Next up are Sonore OpticalRendu to replace generic FMC and Network Acoustic Muon ethernet filter.
I know that all presumed improvements are very system dependent, but my most recent additions are very low in price and together have made a discernable improvement in increased clarity and consistency. Worth reporting, I think. And that is the combination of a new Viborg power cable and a D-Link DGS105, grounded and powered by an iFi iPower 5v wall wart. All cheap by any audiophile standard and available from and returnable to Amazon. More musical enjoyment than ever.
System is modem and Synology NAS to switch. Switch to laptop running JRiver and to SOtM sMS-200ultra neo powered by SBooster. AudioQuest Pearl from SOtM to DAC. SOtM running as DLNA Bridge controlled by EOS (perhaps the best JRiver remote app) on phone or Samsung pad. Streaming is by BubbleUPnP on SOtM and Phone or Pad. All ethernet cable is generic.
Worth checking Tim. From what I understood while investigating the Zen Stream before purchase, the dedicated switch wasn’t necessary……but, for Roon? May be, as I say, I don’t use it. As I said, the connection via USB is easy peasy to my Denafrips simply by selecting USB as the source.
I seem to recall someone else on a forum having a similar problem with the Zen Stream and Roon via USB connection. IIRC, they were able to change some settings in Roon….again, that is a very sketchy memory, but it does sound familiar.
BTW, I was streaming some Dire Wolves the other night per your recommendation…man..those guys are really good 👍🏼
Tim, I use a USB from my Zen Stream to my Denafrips without issue. I leave my Zen Stream in the ‘all in one’ setting, as if I prioritize it, then I cannot see my USB external hard drive also connected to the Zen Stream, as I cannot log into the Zen Stream app.
I have to wonder if this isn’t a Roon issue/setting. I do not use Roon, but it may be worth investigating. I assume you are using your DAC as a Roon ‘end point’.
@sirnui- You would think it would be like everything else, but... I tried the logical approach & unfortunately it didn't work. Thanks for responding though.
@melmTry taking WW for a spin I've been very surprised how good their Ethernet cables are.
I never paid WW any attention before because I thought they were like AQ,
I don't like the way AQ market cables with dozens of different series, then upon that they have different editions.
WW are IMO in a higher league and their service is fantastic. Call Larry at WW and they'll cut custom length cables and you'll usually get them the next day.
WW will give you sparkle I'm sure, AQ Diamond Ethernet is dark.
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