I don't know if it would or not. I just let folks do their thing and I listen, lol. With the MS, I can't even move my speakers. Have to use a neighbor or most of the time a fellow hi fi friend, lol. Johnny Rutan at Audio Connection came over to set mine up and other than a small move to dial them in, I haven't done much. He's very very good at setting up any speaker and was worth the price paid, lol....I live pretty far away and it's a fulllllll day for him. |
@thyname. I don’t use social media at all. It’s just not my thing.
@ctsooner. The Zenith can rip to WAV or FLAC, I ripped my entire CD library to FLAC. I’ll have to rip a couple to WAV to see if I can hear a difference. Would converting FLAC to WAV cause any loss of fidelity?
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Guys, I run AQ cabling throughout my system. I have the WEL TOTL balanced interconnects. All power cords are Hurricane. I own a Diamond USB cable which is very very good and underrated I feel. I'm going to sell off the Niagara balanced and Water balanced as I don't use them anymore. That said, I have found that the top Wireworld ethernet cables are DAMN good. I've yet to audition any others that are better. I also like the new Wire world optical cables they use a better fiber than the others do that I've had in the system to try. I use two, because of the EMO medical filter I use. I also use a dedicated LPS for the cable router that is directly behind the rack. It's made a substantial difference for the better. my DAC is built into my Memory Player server right now, but we are going to take it out and make it a two box unit. Then we will make a custom cable to connect it. Not sure how they want to do that. It's fun to be able to help them dial in their product, lol. It's already special but will be great once we get hit all set up and figure out a few things. So excited.
I'm going to be part of a new MS study and they will fly me to NIH in Bethesda a couple of times a year and I want to go to some of the stores down there. I've been to a few in the past, but not in many years.
WAV....????? Dpont' know why. No clue, but I play the same track in FLAC and then WAV and my wife can tell. More relaxed and more micro detail. Not huge by any means. Just ask Steve Nugent who is Empirical Audio and makes one of the best DACS you can buy for around 13k I think. I used to own his top DAC before this new one.
Mark who designed Laufer Techniques says the same thing. I have yet to play both for folks and not have them say they like WAV a bit better. Remember, that this is in my system or systems I've heard |
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@thyname. I purchased my demo Zenith and WireWorld cables from Command Performance AV. Good group of guys.
@ctsooner. Why WAV? What’s the benefit?
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Great thread! I am in DC area too. As a matter of fact, the US Distributor of Innuos is located in Tyson’s Corner. Well Pleased Audio. They were present at CAF, with their own room, and Mark Sosa himself.
The local dealer for Innuos in our area is Command Performance AV, in Falls Church. You may want to pay them a visit @oldschool1948. They were at CAF too, and using the Zennith MKII
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Great post and thanks for sharing.I feel better about myself now, lol.
Folks, so many use FLAC as it's easy and you get album art easier etc.... Try the same files in WAV. Many designers will tell yo it's much better for SQ. I feel the same way. |
great post. Thanks, I feel better about my own journey now, lol.
Also, most run FLAC as it's easy and you get the art, but most top designers I know only use WAV and that's what I use. I have about 1T of Flac now, but we will change it over to WAV. |
ctsooner: Guys, digital is a strange beast and most folks just don’t want to spend the time to ask the right questions or do it correctly. Strange beast no doubt!! When first indulging in any endeavor, such as digital music, I think most people don’t know how much they don’t know. So they don’t know the right questions to ask. I place myself in that category. The transition from pure analog to pure or hybrid digital can be a steep and expensive learning curve as I’ve found out. When jumping into digital music, I got a great deal on a pair of Tannoy 8 dcti speakers. IMHO they are excellent speakers at their price point. My next purchase was a NAD 12 pre & NAD 22 v2 power amp. At first, the highs were way too bright; the mids were too "in your face"; and the bass was fine. So I started doing some research. Almost everyone said a tube amp and acoustic treatment would solve my problem. So, I did some more research. My next purchase was a Furman 15psi power conditioner. Then a demo Innuos Zenith MK2 from a local dealer, along with a Wireworld Ethernet cable, Wireworld USB cable, and Wireworld power cable. Streaming Tidal, playing ripped FLAC CDs and DSD files opened my eyes to how wonderful a digital system can sound. My next purchases were VooDoo power cables for the Furman, M12, and M22 v2. As time when on, I noticed the highs and mids settled down a bit and the SQ became more "lush." My next purchase was a Technics SL-1200G and Ortofon Quintet Black, with Ortofon interconnects and a power cable, which replaced my 35 year old Technics SL-1600MK2 w/ Ortofon Blue. I’ve never heard vinyl sound so good! By this time, all of new gear was sounding pretty good. But, I know I still need acoustic treatment. But, I’m not convinced I need tubes anywhere in my music chain. I recently purchased a Mytek Liberty DAC at the DC audio show and noticed an immediate sonic sound improvement. I’m now looking to purchase a better phono preamp, with the Music Fidelity MX-VYNL and REGA - Aria on my short list. I plan to listen to that combination for about a while, and then decide my next steps. I listen mostly to Jazz and old school R&B, at moderate levels. When I do "crank" it up a bit, the sound is a little overwhelming - due mainly because I have a small 11.5 x 13.5 listening room (and no acoustic treatment). I joined the DC HIFI Club this past month. The wealth of knowledge and experience in that group is awesome. I’m looking forward to learning more as I continue on this journey. |
Guys, digital is a strange beast and most folks just don't want to spend the time to ask the right questions or do it correctly. There are some outstanding pieces of digital gear, but it may be the most important place in the system to have synergy. I relate it to the tonearm/cart marriage.
I've spend way too much time with so many pieces of digital, filters, LPS units, Cables, cords and of course signal optical isolation. There are some key places to look at and electrical is soooo important. You must start with clean electric power. Even more so than with an amp for some reason. Then you need to figure out what DAC you will ultimately be using and then the connection. Some are optimized for USB and some for Etherrnet and some for..... Even my Ayre, that Charlie himself said was optimized for all inputs sounded best in my system with the ethernet and then the BNC connections. Small, but noticeable differences (I did love that DAC, especially for the price).
The best main stream server I heard was the Aurender N10 (as well as the W20). They just got things right and are so easy to use. Most folks won't miss not having Room with it either. The Innuos is a nice unit also as are many of the new servers coming out. It's in it's infancy. I ended up with a Memory Player and I've heard nothing on the market that comes close to it for any price. I am in shock by the new DAC that they are making for it. I have the prototype and it's already great. Upside/downside to many top digital products.....support. Smaller companies will be around as long as the designer/owners are. That's important to many, but if you want the best digital sounds, so far it's a small group of companies that I've found who are the best adn give you the personal attention you need, but how long will they be able to?
I know that the Memory Player folks (not to be confused with PS Audio who sells a Memory Player, but isn't the same company, lol) has a mini server that shares much of the tech with my reference unit and is a great value also. I know a few guys who love that one too.
it's impossible to audition so many of these units as they are factory direct, so this is why so many will stick to a dealer. If through a dealer, I'd ask them how long they have carried the line. I'd take a look at how often the company 'refreshes their models'. Is it the same model that they have just kept upgrading over time (Aurender is like this I know as are a few others) or are their mk 2's and 3's and 4's every two years. In digital, they should be able to do software updates to keep their products shelf lives at the 7 year range or so. They can do it in digital if they design it correctly to begin with. Those were my criteria.
There are a ton of great products and dealers to chose from, so go listen and use your ears. Just make sure you use a great neutral cable and feed it the cleanest power you can afford. I use the new AQ Niagara cleaner (sold my top end Synergistic Research) and the new Hurricane power cords as I have found them to bet the best in MY system IRT power. I borrowed MANY cords and none were close and that includes a few in the 8k plus range. Oh, I didn't keep the optical isolation (although you can't go wrong with it) as I found the $130 EMO medical filter to be best for my ethernet feed, but you then need two ethernet cables, lol...was worth it for my Tidal streaming. |
I'm a little familiar with JS Audio. Excellent product selection, most of which are very high-end and out of my price range. My budget is ~$3,500 retail for whatever I purchase. |
oldschool1948... since you're in the DC area, JS Audio in Bethesda is an excellent dealer offering a number of the fine brands mentioned here. I've felt with them for years and still do now, from Florida. |
Thanks, I'll listen to the mk3 before I decide. |
The Zenith mk 3's will be released this month so you might find a mk 2 demo for a good price. Good luck with whatever you choose. |
ron17, thanks for the input. The SE is out my budget, but the MKII is well within range. |
I had an Aurender N100h for several years and just upgraded to an Innuos Zenith mk2 SE a few months ago. It was a major upgrade in every way especially ease of use. Ripping CD's with the Aurender was difficult and time consuming but with the Zenith it's so quick and easy. Also Innous gives you the option of using Roon (which I do and love) and Aurender does not. Very happy with the Zenith. |
I will have to chime in here on the side of Dave who also spent a fair bit of time on the phone with me going over my system, my expectations and my options.
Yes of course you can assume they would desire to sell something to me at the end of the day but there was NO sales push at all.
In fact I do owe him a return call for something else he was investigating but have been under the weather of late.
I can say he did seem to be very knowledgeable in the areas of my concerns and I would have no hesitation dealing with him at all including purchasing equipment at this stage.
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So nice to read about these dedicated audio professionals. When I had my store I think we spent more time LEARNING than we did selling. Back then--early 1970's--manufacturers were bending over backwards to provide education to dealers that was not only "their" product-based. I found that having a professional audio consultant available provided a better ROI than all the advertising co-op money I got in a year. Naturally, we wanted to sell what we carried, but there were instances where we sent customers to other dealers for items we simply could not carry. For example, with over 300 speaker manufacturers around at any one time, and each one offering many different products, it is impossible for ANY dealer to satisfy every customer with every desired product.
We made more sales by taking systems to customer homes, setting them up, and letting the customer find the exact "sound" he/she was looking for than we did with "hard sell" tactics or even by cutting retail prices.
By the way, back then there was something called "Fair Trade" that was strictly enforced by manufacturers. You can look it up if you don't know what that was. I imagine it is still around today, even though it is illegal, but is enforced the same way it was back then. Screw up and they pull the line from your shop, period, no discussion. In one case, I heard they went into a competitor's shop, re-possessed their current inventory, and cut them a check on the spot for it. Interesting times! |
Wow!
In this overly negative world we seem to live in I'm really happy to hear a good report about someone! Makes me want to check out their shop,
Thank you!
JD |
@oldschool1948. certainly some great dealers in DC area....
might i also suggest a quick call to Alan Jones at Hi-Fi buys in Buckhead, they do quite a bit with NAD and the Bluesound OS... might be able to help with system synergy getting most out of NAD..
he carries the big DCS stack, so he knows what superb digital can sound like.
best to you !!!! |
the NAD can be made to sound very liquid, analogue like with a few tweaks and the right preamp
I hope I can get there with the M12/M22 v2/8 dcti combo and a few tweaks :-). My problem is identifying which tweaks to make and in which order. I'm in the DC area where there are a number of high-end stereo stores. I plan to visit a local NAD dealer and do some listening comparisons, get some more advice, and go from there. Everyone, thanks for the advice. I do hope more is forthcoming. |
I hate spell check... Nordost cables....
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As to Server.... from an ownership perspective I have two NAIM Unitiserve both with Pardo LPS, HRS isolation and damping bricks and AQ and Nordstrom cables - I have heard the server you asked about - it sounds very good.
not sure how it would compare with a new NAIM core...
i suspect they would be quite close.
Listen for yourself - I think the Audio Doctor carries both - with a Server IF you are not verybtech savvy I suggest making sure support is stellar.
NAIM support for North America - including service for when it breaks is right here in Canada. The Techs can also remote into your home network to fix things that can and do go awry...
happens to all servers, BS to believe otherwise.
so make service and support part of your equation.
again
enjoy your fun search and the music !!!!! |
@gdnrbob A Big +1 Although I've only been at AudioConnection once, the time spent with John R. was truly enjoyable. He is so knowledgeable about acoustics, gear, set-up etc. that there is much to be learned from him. Most impressive is the performance he is able to wrest from even modest gear. Never in my wildest imagination did I think I would hear a pair of Vandersteen 1c's sound as good as they did there. It was stunning!
John has helped out many people here just by advising them about set-up of their present gear. No effort to sell.
I'm glad that Audio Doctor can also give solid advice without a hard sales pitch.
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Glad to hear of the excellent experience:-)
i think junking the Tannoy might be a mistake.... just my $.02
careful selection of digital components, especially those engineered by both digital and analog engineers can yield astonishing SQ.
for example take a look at Ayre or Aesthetix DAC’s ( there are more ) with Faraday cages, extensive RF shielding, isolation, serious custom filters, isolation, power supply filtering, etc
the NAD can be made to sound very liquid, analogue like with a few tweaks and the right preamp
brother in law has one into Odyssey Candela pre w Cardas cables into Odyssey Power amp into Magnepan- very nice sound.....
i bet Tannoy at the end of his chain would sound fantastic also :-)
enjoy your search and the music !!!!!
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Well, if you want a second opinion, I would contact John Rutan at Audioconnection. He is in Verona, NJ. You can PM him on Agon (audioconnection).
B |
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@oldschool1948 Thanks for sharing your positive experience. I have found many of the Audio Doctor posts here to be advertisements for the gear they sell along with pejorative statements about gear they don't carry or that they used to sell. |
