I went ahead and ordered the new Apple TV. It is $99 and I will use it somewhere in the house. But I am seriously thinking about coupling it with a decent DAC and using it to stream all of my iTunes content. My system includes Martin Logan Summit speakers, Jeff Rowland amp, BAT pre amp. Any comments on whether this is a good idea?
I always found the ATV1, whether streaming or directly from the hard drive to be a little clunky. As a streamer it would drive me nuts, either not updating the data on my computer or losing it altogether and forcing a reboot of both. The hard drive was noisy and imo not a whole lot better as streaming.
The ATV2 is a whole new experience.... Instant updates on all computer databases and I have never had to reboot either since I first installed it in my system. The SQ in markedly improved. The whole device is just slick. I bought all 3 of my grown daughters one for Christmas and they love it and use it all the time.
I love Naim kit as well, it has reignited my passion for stereo. I also love the Naim forum..... Not sure I understand it or its culture but its a wild (and expensive) ride
I asked before, but you may have lost it in the thread -
Are you comparing streamed music in the gen 1 vs gen 2, or did you have the music stored on the gen 1's internal hard drive? I've noticed that music sounds a bit better stored vs streamed on my gen 1. Haven't bought the gen 2, only heard it in the Apple store, which isn't really hearing it at all.
Can you elaborate on the differences between the two?
Great DAC, btw. I'm a huge fan of the Naim stuff. Can't figure out why its hit or miss with the Naim forum guys.
My new ATV is running through a Naim DAC and Naim amp and preamp.
It is not only light years ahead of the first generation ATV but it rivals some high end streamers I also have connected.
The other surprising aspect of the new ATV is the quality of the wireless connection. It is the only device in my house that I have I connected using wireless.... So far it has been flawless.
Couldn't agree more, Edavis. I have the previous gen ATV and use my iPhone to control it. Ripping and synching my CDs wasn't fun, but I'm so glad I took the time to do so. My collection is about half of yours, so I still have a ways to go. I bought the previous ATV so I wouldn't have to stream my music/need the computer on to access my library. I won't go back to a CDP again, that's for sure.
Can't figure out why poeple are so reluctant to go this route. Just because you rip everything doesn't mean you have to get rid of your CDs. I keep them as a back up, and because I want to have the liner stuff around. I keep them in an easily accesable box in the basement if the mood should strike me.
I'd love to get an iPad, but I can't justify the price. If I didn't have the iPhone, it would be easier to though.
I enjoy getting other people's opinions and learning from their experiences. I have an old set of Martin Logan Requests, Krell FPB 200, Pass Aleph P, and have been using a Krell KAV300 CD player wit Nordost interconnects. I grew tired of searching for CD's in my collection (800+, modest by many standards). I put a PS Audio Digital Link III to upgrade my D/A.
I just purchased an Apple TV 2, and routed the optical output to the PS Audio DL III. I am very impressed by the sound quality I'm getting, and am 400 CD's into ripping my collection. With an iPad to control media access, it has revolutionized my musical experience. I've added a 2nd Apple TV 2 in the basement, using the D/A converter in my Integra 9.8. Again, great sound and access to my music collection.
I think WAV is 60% larger than Apple Lossless. Don't hold me to that exact number.
Edavis-
Thanks for not taking my findings as an attack. I've seen too many people get worked up over stuff like that. All we can do is report our own findings. Speaking of which...
I re-ripped several tracks as WAV and Apple Lossless, and 320 Kbps mp3 just to keep things interesting. mp3 was flat, undynamic, and congested, as expected.
I couldn't hear any difference between WAV and Apple Lossless. My system consists of a Bryston B60 integrated, Audio Physic Yara Evolution bookshelves, Apple TV gen 1, and 2 DACs - Theta Cobalt and the new Rega DAC. None of this stuff is the last word in anything, but it's very revealing and honest. The Theta DAC is very detailed and is great at imaging and soundstaging vs the Rega DAC. The Rega DAC beats it in pretty much every other way though. I'm 34 with what I'm told is pretty good hearing.
I'm not saying if I don't hear a difference, no one does. I hate it when people have that mentality. Just reporting my recent re-evaluation and results.
Everyone's ears and systems are different, Kbarkamian. That's why I reported what I did. The difference is suttle, but I could hear it. Electrostatic speakers are quite revealing, and they will provide their opinion on all your components and the quality of the music sources too.
You can fit quite a few CD's on a 1TB drive, so I put them on as wave files. My system has very high resolution, and I still have good ears.
Interesting, Edavis. I've tried WAV and Apple Lossless on several CDs and didn't hear a difference on my ATV gen 1. Not doubting what you're hearing, just stating what I've heard (or haven't heard) on my system.
I just got an Apple TV ver 2, and connected it to my PS Audio III DAC, feeding a Pass Aleph P pre-amp, Krell FPB 200 into Martin Logan ReQuests. My testing so far shows no difference in sound quality, as long as I import my CD's as wave files. There is a difference in spacial quailities between Apple Lossless, and wave files.
The convienence is incredible, and I just got a 1 TB drive to import my 900+ CD's into iTunes.
Thanks for your response. Does this mean that you can only use the ATV for 2-channel for all purposes? i.e., is there a way to have sound for movies go to the AVR via HDMI, while music travels over optical to the DAC?
I have an HDMI connected to my TV and use the optical out to my DAC (2 channel, not an AVR). There's a Dolby Digital output selection under one of the settings, and I have it set to off. I'm assuming having it set to on would be some sort of surround format? At off I get stereo digital output.
I love my 160 gb ATV. One thing that I have done is to run a long HDMI cable to a new hp computer monitor. The monitor doubles for the ATV and my PC. With the monitor's controls I just switch the source back and forth depending on which I'm using, PC or ATV. really cool.
Is there a way to hook up the ATV so that video goes through HDMI and audio goes through an external DAC for 2-channel? How do you all handle this?
I am about to buy an Arcam AVR600 receiver - will the DACs in the AVR be good enough so that I don't need to worry about this and can just send it all over HDMI?
You need a TV to do all the initial set up and maintanence stuff like checking if you have the latest updates.
The Touch/iPhone remote is great for selecting music. I haven't tried it, but I think you can add to an "on the go" playlist from it.
Haven't heard of another remote app.
One of my main complaints is the whole standby issue. Appearently,standby only turns off the video outputsand nothing else. For some reason unbeknownced to me, mine keeps coming out of standby mode. After I put it in standby, it'll be back into regular mode within a few hours.
I still like it way too much to care about the very minor hang ups.
well, i picked up the old apple tv with 160gb hard drive since i wanted to keep the music files on the apple tv hard drive so i don't have to leave the computer on with itunes open all the time to stream music. so far i have to say that it's not really as easy to use without a tv screen as i had expected! i know it's not really designed to be used without a TV, but i've read plenty of people using it solely as a music server and using iphone/ipod tough/ipad to remote conrol it. i'm using the free apple remote app, but still, without attaching it to a tv, it's hard to change settings on the apple tv. plus, there's no way to put the apple tv in standby with the apple remote app. i also notices that if the apple tv gets disconnected from the wireless network, i really don't have an easy way to check the wireless setting on the apple tv without a tv screen. i thought there's a third-party iphone app that shows the entire apple tv screen on your iphone, but i can't seem to find it. any suggestions?
@Happybob: I believe the new ATV has 8GB of storage. The rumor is the storage for "apps". With Google TV and the new Roku units, this type of product is going to be a big market in the near future.
@Ballan: thanks for the reply, that's very surprising to me, streaming actually sounds better than off the hard drive. can anyone else confirm this finding? my guess since the new apple tv has 256mb of memory and 16gb od SSD storage, the sound quality difference is perhaps due to the type of storage? SSD is better than hard drive in terms of noise level and jitters?
@Happybob: Yes, I think the new ATV sounds better than the older model. It's subtle, but I can comfortably say it sounds better.
I'm using the optical output (VanDenHul OptiCoupler, Wireworld SuperNove 6 and Siltec Glass) into a Naim DAC, Proceed AVP/PDSD, Linn 5103 and a homemade DAC. The Proceed has lost "lock" a few times, but it's minor and doesn't last very long.
I'm eager to hear other people's experience and opinion. So far I've been very impressed with the sound, and (like I said in a previous post) the video quality. It's not Blu-Ray quality, but it's better than some 1080 content through satellite. Please post your feedback and experience. I'm just one guy looking to learn. Hope this helps.
just to clarify, i'm mainly interested in using the apple tv as a music server, connected to a ps audio DLIII dac, in a 2 channel system playing only apple lossless files. not really interested in the video capabilities. i was leaning on getting the older apple tv with 160gb hard drive. but if you guys are saying that new streaming-only apple tv sounds better than the old apple tv in a music only system through a DAC, then i might need to consider getting the new apple tv instead.
@Ballan: please again clarify, are you saying that the new apple tv sounds better than the previous one out of the box, or through a dedicated high-end DAC? Are you saying that the new apple TV through optical connection to a high-end DAC sounds better through streaming than the older apple tv through optical connection to a high-end DAC playing apple lossless files off its hard drive rather than through sreaming?
@Happybob: The new ATV sounds better than the AirPort Express and previous ATV. I've been using and installing them over the last week with great success. It's an impressive little piece of gear. If you are an iTunes user and want to stream iTunes content, I highly recommend it.
The interface is quick and easy. The Apple Remote app integrates wonderfully. It sounds great, and even though it only supports 720p HD video, it look surprisingly good. I compared it with some 1080 HD content from Dish Network and DirecTV, and the ATV looks better.
for anyone who actually owns both the old apple tv with hard drive and the new $99 apple tv, can you please compare the sound quality through an external dedicated DAC? thanks!
@Ericjcabrera: Make sure the Dolby Digital settings is turned "off" and this will allow a stereo PCM signal to be the output.
It works must like a DVD player. If the Dolby Digital bitstream is selected, it will output that when it's available, if not, it will send a stereo PCM signal.
Banyon100, can you please clarify what you meant by "First impression is the sound is much better than the older version. More depth and detail.." Were you talking about the sound quality with music through a dedicated DAC in a high-end systems, or just sound quality in general through the built-in DAC when you watch movies?
UVerse and all the other 'HD' feeds are pretty lame. I've seen lots of HD movies which look no better than a good, upsampled DVD. I'll bet the data rates and compression are about equal, too. Sports and News are exceptions and are usually very good HD feeds.
It's all a matter of bandwidth. 'Mo better.
If they turn it loose, the Verizon fiberoptic cable right to your door can potentially provide the best signal.
A full-on 720p, without compression and limiting, should be better than any of the so-called 1080 stuff which has been massively stepped on.
I pre-ordered and got mine a few days ago and I absolutely LOVE it! Sound quality as compared to my oppo se is better, only one problem-if your a 2channel person this is pretty much out for you. Im sure theres a way to get it done but Im getting 5.1 music as if all music is an sacd, which I LOVE! 720p to me looks better with apple tv than 1080i with my att uverse. I love this thing! im getting one for each tv in my house and thats 4!
You can connect the ATV either wireless or wired. I use an AE in wireless mode. I DO NOT have a wireless router. You should be able to run the ATV as a 'client'. This means your Imac must be ON. Normally I have my airport OFF. But when I want to use the wireless feature, I turn airport ON and then my Itunes is configured to find my AE and stream music to it. Should work the same way with ATV, The Apple website should be able to answer more questions. And the help guys at the stores DO know their stuff. Geeks all.
Ericjcabrera, Video can be streamed but the source of the AirPlay (be that iMac, iPhone, iPad,etc...) has to be on, as of the latest developers' release of iOS4.2
I have played HD content. It looks very good, but is clearly a downgrade from 1080. I have my blu-ray player and antenna for higher resolution content. If 1080 is key for you, definitely go with one of the upcoming google tV boxes. Streaming itunes content was a priority for me, so this works well.
Mine was delivered yesterday. Using it with a v-dac for streaming of apple lossless via itunes. Sounds great (make sure sound check is not switched on). Very slick system and easy to set up. The video quality through netflix is much better than expected.
The Apple TV is now in the Walnut Creek Apple Store. They get a shipment every morning and so far have run out by about noon each day.
The good news: Netflix on this thing is awesome. Great integration, you can rate, get more info - everything you can do within the iTunes store, but of course the price is only the cost of your monthly membership. Very very nice.
The bad news: I primarily use my Apple TV for music, so that was the piece I most wanted to see in store. Unfortunately, the staff said their network was locked down, so the one set of the menus that they couldn't show was the music menus. Harumph. Nonetheless, I'm planning on getting one.
To the guys who've heard differences between streaming and stored music with the 160gb Apple TV, I've heard it too. I don't think it has to do with router distance, type, etc. My is the most current Linksys (N?) and in the same room as my Apple TV. Its not a huge night and day difference (everyone's opinion of quantity are different), but there's a definite difference.
Banyon100 -
Are you comparing music stored on the hard drive or streamed to the old one vs new one?
just got my new ATV today.... First impression is the sound is much better than the older version. More depth and detail. Navigation is very quick and menu system is very slick. Very impressive upgrade for $99.00
@Ballan here there are samples in HD. You can download 24/96 WAW and check what happens. By the way Apple Lossles coded suport HD files at any rate. If you have trouble, please drop me a mail, I will try to send you a sample for the test.
http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html
@Aberyclark I do not think the stream to ATV is influenced by the midi config like standard audio output on the mac.
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