New TT ideas please

Doug
To dismiss suspended turntables out of hand is in my opinion a bit like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
The JEM Blue Pearl is reported to be a good contender for state of the art performance.
and YES it is a suspended design.
I changed from an older Oracle Delphi to a Scheu Premier 11 and although the Scheu had its strengths I preffered the Oracle in my system.
I now use Townsends new Rock mkV and can apply all of your'e friends comments against the Scheu and Oracle tts.
and the Rock is a high mass suspended design.
A well designed tt is a well designed tt
suspended or not
all the best
Terry

Pauly, while I agree with you that there are very well implemented suspended tables I think you have overstated a few things to make your point.

The platter is directly coupled to the plinth via the bearing, unless the bearing is of the magnetic/air type. The plinth on suspended tables are not directly coupled to the stand, but rather floating on the suspension. If there is sufficient drag on the platter during dynamic passages there actually could be a rotational twisting reaction on the platter/bearing/plinth as well as the drive. I do believe most higher quality suspended designs have addressed this to the point where you would probably not hear it.

As for thumping a non-suspended table and making the cartridge fly, I can tell you that that is much easier and more likely to happen with a suspended table. That is exactly the reason I moved from suspended a (Basis) to non-suspended (Galibier) table. It is not the first moment of impact that caused the stylus to jump. It was the second moment when the suspension jerked back to the steady-state position that the stylus left the groove because it wanted to keep going in the original direction of motion. Bodies in motion tend to stay in motion unless. . . yada, yada.

We can all look around and find good and bad implementations of both approaches. I don't think it is so easy to dismiss either when the implementation is well done. I still have a high regard for Basis tables but there are some things I would never try to do with any suspended table. Like adjusting VTA and AS while the stylus is in the groove. I realize this isn't important for everyone but it was for me. Lucky for me that I'm in a position that I don't have to have a suspended table.

I've gone steeply up a curve on this thread alone. I know there are differing views and nuances, but you lot seem to handle such things in a very gentlemanly fashion (apologies to any ladies).

Many dealers lambaste the web, but those are the ones that don't like an educated customer.

Many, many thanks to all here.

Cheers

I used to have a Garrard 401 on my mono system in my home office. The 401 is dead mint and I constructed a high mass 7 layers Birch plywood plinth and quite happy with it.

The plinth was 22 x 24in. in size and weight approv. 40 to 50lbs. I also used a stethoscope on the plinth near the motor housing or on the tonearm base to see if I can heard some noise but I can't detected any. It sounds quite nice.

One day I bought the 401 upstair to my main system....The comparison was fair...Everythings were the same, the only difference was the tonearm wire inside the SME 3012 S2 tonearm. Same TT stand, same catridge, same setting in volume, same phono interconnect. When compared to the Verdier, The Garrard 401 was noisy. very noisy. There are alot of 'stuff' in the music background. Without the comparison with the Verdier, I cannot detected it. I sold the 401 the next day and I would say no more idler wheel TT for me.

If you have a Lenco, Garrard or even EMT 927 or 930, you should buy, borrow or steal:) a Verdier and compare it to your favourite idler wheel TT. You might have the same result as mine:) !!!!! The Verdier that I'm talking about is the one with the magnets.

Terry,

Before you posted I stated clearly - twice - that I have not heard and was not commenting on the more costly suspended tables. For you to leap to the conclusion that I, "dismiss suspended turntables out of hand" was a considerable overstatement that ignored what I actually wrote.

So, why bring an $80,000 JEM Blue Pearl (12x Hatari's budget) into the discussion as a counter-example to something I very carefully did not say? I'm sure a $300K Ferrari would outperform my $25K Mazda and whatever car Hatari drives too. We knew that.

Suspensions are difficult to do well. Some very costly implementations may succeed, or not. I don't know - for the third time.

The ones I've heard within Hatari's budget did not meet his stated priorities (which are very similar to mine) as well as the four brands I mentioned. I've stated my relevant experiences and my understanding of them. Please share your own of course, but save the Michael Moore wisecracks.