My behavior is only based on your silly perception that the SE-R1 is high end, which it is not. Why aren't you comparing it to other world Class D amps, which you won't is puzzling to me, all you are doing is focusing on the tech side and nothing else assuming their design results in state of the art sound. Have you read the remarkable review on the Totally Wired site? At the end of the review there is a link to many other Pro and Audiophile reviews that all have the same consensus that the Evolution One is the best Class D amp on the market.
" The Evolution Ones' are giving us the best of sound quality attributed
to Class A or Tubes with fluidity, ease and open nature".....
Totally Wired |
It is all puffery about class D. The opening statement was sufficient to see a pure shill.
The hyperbole in the opening typically is that of a shill.
Class D has its place, but be real about what it truly is. |
You are a twat that can't take what you asked for with dignity, all I see now is a Nuprime shiller. |
Oh take it is junior...again, when is the wedding? I promise to bring a big bag of rice. Do you prefer regular grain or Jasmine? |
Phew! Your a shipwreck..So I pointed out Technics has super high switching thats all. Then why was I correcting your BS, go back and read your own bagging on it again. your engaged to the SE-R1, Because so far it’s the only one that’s pushed the new GaN technology to it’s limits, and you saw fit to attack those limits in it’s switching frequency and weight, without knowing what the you are saying not even one iota. |
mrdecibel..I neglected to ask Demian if the Preamps he designed stopped with the DMC-10 or the DCM-12 ? Different forums I've been to go back and forth that either Keith or Demian designed the DMC-12. |
Phew! Your a shipwreck..So I pointed out Technics has super high switching thats all. I never said anything about its performance. Since you have no clue what high end is, and your engaged to the SE-R1, could you please let us know the date of the wedding? |
George, again....I could care less regarding the topology of the Technics. Sorry but your the i***t that bought Technics and it’s switching frequency up to begin with, then bagged the Technics out, for it’s weight and circuit topology. Now your corrected you couldn’t "care less" about it.????? Really? This smells like a Nuprime shiller https://forum.audiogon.com/users/audiozen/posts or someone that doesn’t give a **** what BS they write, and then bristles up when corrected. |
I purchased my first switching amp, the PS Audio HCA-2 before it was reviewed, while my Ayre V-1 was being upgraded. I was instantly taken by its unique presentation which was noticeably improved after installing Black Gate caps. Between in home auditioning a few other brands I upgraded my homes VAC service. I over built fully shielded uninterrupted audio and video circuits which the switchers responded so well I question any Class D reviewers AC source.
The NuForce 9SEs offered a substantial sonic improvement in the quickly evolving Class D. The NuForce Milpitas location was right over Hwy. 17 where I hand delivered the mono's for a minor upgrade. The staff there was very welcoming. I purchased their soon to be released speaker cables which were sonically different than the Cardas Golden Ref I was using
Eventually sold the the 9SEs for the Hypex nCore 400 kits which currently provide power to studio monitors. Have come full circle with Bob Carver tubes driving the mains.
I find it interesting but not at all surprising to hear of any advancements NuPrime will have made. Nice to hear about it, thanks.
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The best component they make is their turntable's which has been their foundation for fifty years. |
I read reviews on Audioshark of the SE-R1 by audiophiles who attended AXPONA and other shows and they were not impressed enough to buy the piece but thought the amp sounded good but did not knock their socks off. Technics is not high end and never has been for over forty years and no way is on the same level as Spectral, Boulder, Krell, Rowland or Levinson, so don't try to sell us that the SE-R1 is up on the same loft as those great brands. If your going to invest $17K into an amp then you better make certain the performance smacks you in the head like a grand slam, if not your buying fools gold and you'll wind up selling it on Audiogon. |
George, again....I could care less regarding the topology of the Technics. If a designer can get it right resulting in outstanding performance from a light weight, well designed Class D amp, than its completely pointless to justify buying a 119 lb amp if there's no performance differences between the two. Are you a Technics dealer? |
I can no longer lift the heavy stuff. Ok, so that is the real reason for the b***h slap against the 119lbs weight of the Technics SE-R1, and that you don’t know the reason for it’s weight The ongoing perception in recent years that moving forward with Class D, lightweight designs is a venture we all look forward to, and Technics could’ve just as easily designed a lightweight Class D amp with GaN transistors with an excellent power supply as the Evolution One. If you look and many of the "better" class-d’amps they have chosen to you use "heavier" "more expensive" "harder to make" linear power supplies. Saying that, the Evolution may have a very good (for SMP) supply. One of the very best SMP’s I measured was in my Linn CD12 encased in it’s own cnc machined chamber, it performed great, but it was still not better in noise than the best linear supplies I seen and measured. Cheers George |
mrdecibel...I sent off an email to Demian Martin through the Nuprime site and just spoke to John Casler and he will forward it to Jason Lim to send to Demian regarding questions of the compatibility between the older Spectral Preamps and the Evolution One. I'll post Demians' response when received. Also, the DMC-10 matched very well with the HCA-3500 that I experienced back in 1992. |
@audiozen , back in the day, I sold, and installed, Spectral gear, as well as owning a few pieces. What I have not experienced, was a Spectral preamp driving another branded amp, and vis a versa. Always paired together. Also, only with MIT cables being used. It is my understanding, that because of the very wide bandwidth of the Spectral designs, matching to other products have not been good. What has been your experience ? I understand many, if not all, Class D amps have wide bandwidth. Thanks, MrD. |
I just recently sold my current system and I plan on purchasing a used
Spectral DMC-10 that has been recently serviced and recapped in excellent condition. I could care less if it comes with an RC.The speakers in my new system will be the ELAC FS 249.3's with the jet 5 folded ribbon AMT tweeter.The best tweeter I have ever heard but I still have not decided on a digital source since I'm exploring streaming options. I don't care for the current solid state preamps on the market today. Not nearly as refined and smooth compared to Demians' designs. |
So what preamp with the Evos are you using? |
Thanks MrD. point well taken. This old Scorpio at times finds it hard to control my emotions due to my intense nature but I'll try to keep it under control. |
I was thinking of going down the new class D road. I was looking at Cherry, PS Audio, nuprime, etc. I decided on pure class A FirstWatt J2. I really can’t imagine any amp sounding any better in my current system. |
@audiozen , there is something to be said about an audio product having a heavy, massive chassis. Yes, it costs money....but like a tube, a flimsy chassis can have vibrational issues, both mechanically, and acoustically, that might not be measurable, but are definitely audible. I ( and others ) have taken apart many amplifiers, and have loaded them up with Dynamat, and other resonance and vibration reducing products, with the benefit of hearing an amplifier with superior sq. As the Technics....Ric Schultz, does this.....Merrill does this... Rowland, AGD, and others.....I recently did this with an inexpensive Crown Class D unit( belongs to a client ), and the client is extremely happy with the results. Class D can be light, as a huge advantage, but I would rather own one with some mass around all of those delicate electronics. If you never heard what I am speaking of, I am sorry for you. Yes, I understand your love affair with DM, as I agree with his accomplishments, but as I see it, you should lighten it up, just a little. I wish you happiness, always......Enjoy ! MrD. |
audiozen
what preamp are you using with your Evo's? |
Shertzy..just curious if you burned in the Evo's between 500 and 1000 hours which I was informed by Nuprime that's the time needed for the amps to reach their best performance. Also, what Preamp and digital source did you use with the Evo's. |
Not just a rationale, common sense. We are finally at the point where the science of Class D technology has finally reached the same level of performance equal to the best Class A/AB amps on the market. No point in going backwards if you can get the exact same results from a 20 lb. Class D amp vs. a hot running, suck that power out of the wall, A/AB amplifier. |
As an add on, I did later audition the Mola Mola's and quite liked them but not enough to part with the hard earns. I liked the low profile and power consumption on the Evo's, see, i do find genuine positives. |
Owned the Nuprime Evos as a toe dip in to the class D world of high end, i sold them very quickly, clean crystalline sound they provide, big pin point sound stage, for sure but not music, you could be convinced they have soul unless you have something better to directly compare them with. As a former owner i would suggest trying many other amps before settling on the Evos. As the saying goes - just my 2 cents... |
@audiozen
"
regarding my zeal for Belles, that was my last straw effort to stay in the
A/AB camp, but after experiencing my second hernia injury in recent months, and having surgery next week, I can no longer lift the heavy stuff. Wake up and smell the coffee and accept the fact that we are now in the 21st Century and the doors have already opened to NEW AGE AUDIO and this old A/AB technology is collecting dust"
So A A/B technology is now deemed antiquainted and collecting dust because you can't lift an amp anymore; nice rationale. |
Of course switching is a relevant factor, but the fact that Demians' finger prints all over this design is an indication that is an exceptional piece.
You cannot name one single engineer at Technics going back to 1980, that has designed high end components on the scale of the Spectral pieces designed by Demiam Martin. If that were the case, they would be way ahead of Accuphase, and that will never happen and wouldn't surprise me at all that Accuphase is exploring the Class D route. Facten, regarding my zeal for Belles, that was my last straw effort to stay in the
A/AB camp, but after experiencing my second hernia injury in recent months, and having surgery next week, I can no longer lift the heavy stuff. Wake up and smell the coffee and accept the fact that we are now in the 21st Century and the doors have already opened to NEW AGE AUDIO and this old A/AB technology is collecting dust. The ongoing perception in recent years that moving forward with Class D, lightweight designs is a venture we all look forward to, and Technics could've just as easily designed a lightweight Class D amp with GaN transistors with an excellent power supply as the Evolution One.
You would be better off buying Brunos' excellent Kaluga's also at $17K..
Technics makes outstanding direct drive turntables, but the fact that the companies engineers lack the ability to design a lightweight version of
SE-R1 tells me they missed the mark. The ping pong game continues...
Musicphile vs.Technophile.
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Use in several systems would tell. Nothing else.
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@audiozen
"
I'll never go back to conventional AB
amps since its prehistoric technology going back 50 tears."
This from the man who was exhuberantly trumpeting the to be released Belles Virtuoso amp |
Lets shout and pop a cookie!!! |
audiozen
Zzzzzzzz..George Your the one who said "There is no logic that the Technics has the advantage at 119 lbs"
Obvious you had no idea why it weighed 119lbs, just explaining to you why. And now after I told you, you say boring "Zzz" because you still don’t understand after me telling you? All your worried about, that it’s got a gold plaque on the top🤦♂️ audiozen
I could care less if it switches once an hour. Then why did you bring up switching speed in the first place, quite a few times?? Sorry mate, but your all over the place, especially with the title to this thread Cheers George |
Zzzzzzzz..George, you got a leak in your boat. The rapids on the GaNges
river can be a little rough this time of year. I could care less if it switches once an hour. ITS' ALL ABOUT THE MUSIC FIRST OVER ANYTHING ELSE. By the way, have you ever heard of Demian Martin, cause you sure don't give him the credit he deserves'. Check out the gold DAC with the 24 kt gold plaque on top with Demians' signature on it in the DAC section on the Nuprime site. Looks like a gem. I just may buy that puppy.
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audiozen
There is no logic that the Technics has the advantage at 119 lbs, especially due to the fact that the Evolution One has Damians’ magical circuit work that has made him a living legend. I don’t know about the "magical circuit" stuff? But do you have any idea about power supplies and what they are?? You say "there is no logic to the 119lbs" The logic is, one (Nuprime) has a switch mode supply (smp). The other Technics has 2 x independent choke regulated Linear power supplies, that’s where the weight comes from. Technics told me, one (ei-core) is for the digital and input/driver stage, and other (r-core) for the output stage. https://ibb.co/s1jD64zCheers George |
Ooops...Demian not Damian...passion got in the way.. |
Back your boats up for a moment. The focus is on Damian. Back in 1992,while coming back on a plane from Chicago from a business trip, I spotted an ad in the Seattle Times classifieds of a brand new in the box
Special edition Denon CD player, a version that was not available in the U.S., the DENON GL 2560 SE. The unit weighed 38 lbs. and there was an American version that weighed 25 lbs. The unit was being sold by an asian phile who was from China, and he bought the piece in Hong Kong.
The moment I got off the plane I rushed to a pay phone and asked him to hold it. In the late afternoon I went to the bank and took out $800 cash and when I arrived at his home, the gold colored unit with rosewood panels was a looker. This was the first time I experience Damians magic. The unit was hooked to a Spectral DMC-10 preamp and John Curls' monster Parasound HCA-3500 to a pair of Acoustic Research tower speaker's. I took a number of CD's including Jazz at the Pawnshop and the sound was so smooooth and rich it took my breath away. The unit retailed for $1100.00 and paid $600.00. When I got it home and hooked it up to my Carver components, it sounded sterile and that rich full mid-range that I heard at the sellers home was not there. I called the seller up and asked why it sounded so good..he said " its the Spectral ". George, I could absolutely care less of those who have their heads in the GaNges river, my focus is on MUSIC and nothing else. There is no logic that the Technics has the advantage at 119 lbs, especially due to the fact that the Evolution One has Damians' magical circuit work that has made him a living legend. By the way, I still have the Denon in storage, and twenty eight years later it still works. |
@rocrayIt might be more accurate to say that no matter which topology, the final sound is based on the ear and the voicing of the designer. Here is an interesting comparison of one of the Pass Labs amps with one of the Cherry amps.... and, I for one feel that the preamp-amp-speaker synergy is critical. A great amp may still not be “your” cup of tea in your specific system. https://hometheaterreview.com/digital-amplifier-company-megaschino-power-amplifier-reviewed/ |
I believe there is room for all these topologies. class d is the relatively new kid on the block. They are obviously getting better and better. I'm am not knowledgeable on class d,so forgive me if I sound nieve. Are class D amps trying to mimic the class A sound? |
George has already pointed out the Technics SE-R1 switches at 1.5 millionHz over double the Nuprime but after comparing both pieces, the Nuprime is a superior design with higher power output and far more efficient and runs cool. I thought Class D has evolved to the point where heavy amps are a thing of the past. So Technics puts out a Class D amp that weighs 119 lbs., runs hot with three heat sinks and four vents on top. These are why what you call disadvantages, are really advantages with the SE-R1 The SE-R1 runs luke-warm (not hot) because of the 1.5mhz switching frequency speed, which the advantages have been told here many times. It needs these 2 small heatsinks, which EPC the inventors of GaN power transistors says it needs if the extra sound quality is wanted from GaN with the superior higher 1.5mhz switching speed. Also another 3rd heatsink is used for the "regulated" rails of the power supply, I weighs that 119lbs because it uses 2 x big linear power supplies, far better than any switch mode (smp) stuff. This is why, it’s more into the future than what your spruiking. BTW It’s not hard to sound better than the Nuforce 9se’s V1 V2 or V3 Cheers George |
I checked the specs. The Cherry amps are powerful and I've been aware of the company for many years, and six years ago I spoke to the owner, forgot his name, but I must say he is first class. Very positive friendly attitude and I sensed he really cares about performance value first over high profits. Again, what surprised me about Demian Martin, of all people, to be a co-designer of a Class D amp, and that his reputation back in the 80's and 90's for designing some of the best solid state Class A amps
on the planet, would even think of getting involved in Class D, is a sign that the tide has turned big time, and does not surprise me at all that Totally Wired described the Evolution One sound quality equal to the best
Class A amps with a liquid smooth mid-range of tube amps. Demians' magic touch. |
I’ve never found a “spec wars” type of discussion to be very persuasive as there are always areas where either side can come up short. It is slightly more meaningful when a number of people... more is better... provide detail on their personal experience with the product as you may see something that applies to your situation. From a spec standpoint... here is the evolution one vs the cherry megaschino... scroll down about 1/3 of the page... and to be clear, although I am a cherry fan... these specs tell you nothing about how either amp will sound in our home systems... only trying them will. https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=161765.0 |
Also, the recent review in Totally Wired is one of the best amp reviews I have ever read on a Class D design in 20 years, and would put this amp
right up there with the Marten M amp and the Kaluga. |
lol's...mijostyyn. Cheap Garbage? Sounds like you don't want to leave the 20th Century. Designed for high profit? $8K for the pair of Nuprime and $17K for the Technics? Yeah,right.
three-easy-payments..not a sales pitch at all. I sold my Nuforce REF 9's in late 2006 since the sound quality in the upper bands was terrible and the amps got so hot at times that I slightly burnt my hand one night when the amps went into overload and shut down, saying to myself, this is crap, never again. I never had interest again in Nuforce until two weeks ago, after waiting for months for Dave Belles to release his Virtuoso line, which is delayed over and over. I got tired of waiting for Godot. When I decided recently to explore Nuprime I was stunned that one of the top three circuit engineer's in high end audio during the past forty year's, Demian Martin from Spectral, is with the company. My conversation just days ago with Nuprime, I learned that Demian has been an ongoing consultant, but in the case of the Evolution One it goes much deeper. Demian is the co-designer of the Evo One and was part of the engineering team.The interior is so clean and organized that it reminds me of his board layouts in the Spectral Preamps he designed. If it wasn't for Demiam being involved, I would have no interest, and Demian has been my number one choice as a designer for the past thirty years. |
It's just cheap garbage designed for high profit. Radio Shack use to sell better stuff than this. My old TACT amps switched at 9 megahertz. Now that is PWM switching with a vengeance. In the end still didn't sound that good. Back to Class A and happy as a lark. |
Not a salesman but used to be a Nuforce dealer. I smell a sales agenda. |
My interest was lost as soon as I read "world's finest" and reference to conventional AB amps as "prehistoric technology". Nothing kills credibility like sensational hyperbole. |
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Ooops...I jumped the gun on the specs regarding PWM that the Nuprime has the highest switching frequency at 700kHz. I was incorrect. My apologies for the slip. As George has already pointed out the Technics SE-R1 switches at 1.5 millionHz over double the Nuprime but after comparing both pieces, the Nuprime is a superior design with higher power output and far more efficient and runs cool. I thought Class D has evolved to the point where heavy amps are a thing of the past. So Technics puts out a Class D amp that weighs 119 lbs., runs hot with three heat sinks and four vents on top. Thats not very good engineering compared to Bel Canto, Mola Mola, and Nuprime. The Technics looks more like a hybrid AB/Class D amp. |
+1 Parts matter not, just the results.
audiozen OP779 posts10-24-2019 7:24pm GaN? I could care less. Its all about the music first, not the hardware. |
Be aware also, that GaN transistors are used to correct for flaws in Class D amps that switch modulate at 300khz to 500khz. |
Give me a break. I have owned the Nuforce REF 9's and was a Nuforce dealer in 2005-2006 and have known Jason for years and their current technology and new switching amp is way beyond Nuforce.
GaN? I could care less. Its all about the music first, not the hardware. |
