Hey Ron, That's too bad about the bass - I've always thought of the MWTs as a great apartment speaker. I'm in a 12x20 room and my MWTs have tons of bass. My amp is a 70 Watt Cyrus 8vs2 - not a lot of power, but when I replaced my McIntosh integrated, I noticed much deeper bass with the Cyrus.
I've also simplified my set up recently. I really wanted to go tubes (I was looking at Rogue and Manley Labs) - but I didn't want to give up the Ohms, so I'm sticking with SS for now... |
I appreciate the help (and concern- funny, it's like an AA group) you got THAT right! LOL! |
"Are you getting a big soundstage and reasonably detailed imaging at least at this point?"
Yes. Definitely. That's not a problem at all.
I don't have any latitude on placement. I sit on the back wall (on a sofa- in the middle), and the speakers are on the side walls, a couple feet in front of me, and aimed at me. They are as close to the side walls as I can get them (I tried pulling them out, but that was worse). They are about 11 feet apart. But, like I said, I don't really have anywhere else to put them.
I don't think my ears need to get acclimated... I'm doing a pretty fair comparison. I didn't change any cables or speaker wire- I just swapped out the speakers, and changed the amp settings from 8 Ohm to 4 Ohm (actually, I forgot to do that at first, but it really didn't make much of a difference, anyway). BTW, even though my amp is a tube amp, it IS 90 wpc, so it's not like I'm using a SET. The OHM's are actually louder than the Tyler monitors- I can barely turn the volume past halfway without pissing off the neighbors (the amp has a passive pre, so turning the volume all the way [to eleven] is not uncommon, although it feels weird if you aren't used to that setup).
I appreciate the help (and concern- funny, it's like an AA group), but I don't know that these speakers are going to magically start producing bass.
I think I'm going to look for some used Proac Studio 140's or maybe Totem Hawk's.
I could add a sub (but, I just sold my passive sub and amp), but that was my whole reason for going with floor-standers- I want to avoid the sub (and, I want my stereo to be a bit simpler).
Again, thanks for the help. Either way, I'll keep using these until I find something else, and I'll do a side-by-side comparison before I send the OHMs back. I'll talk to John before I send them back, though. |
Just to be clear regarding tube amps and OHMs, I don't doubt that some combos might float peoples boat and some listeners whose opinions I respect report fairly good results. I have not heard OHMs and tube amps enough to say conclusively. I'm just saying that big SS amps are the best match technically to get the most out of them. YOu can fall a good bit short of that and still have a satisfying combo.
There are a lot of OHM Walshes out there over the years that I suspect many have never heard driven to their max running off of lower power and lower current stereo receivers, and such. THey have traditionally not had a high price of admission and are run on lots of kinds of systems compared to much high end stuff.
As I indicated the 100S3s (Walsh 2 size drivers) even benefit from the 500w/ch Class D amp. How many people have had access to that kind of power to drive OHMs over the years? Not many, including me.
|
Ron,
I just re-read your 02-18-10 post and I remember why you were looking at the Micros. |
Ron,
When I had my MWT's (also in a smallish room
with hardwood floors) bass was never an issue, and although I eventually moved away from the omni thing, I remember bass being one of
their strengths, especially for their size. It may be that you're not
used to the sound, or that it's a placement issue, or that as Map says, they don't do their best with tube power amps.
Also, while monitors on the floor would give gobs of bass reinforcement in
comparison to which the Ohms might seem anemic, but I always found the bass to be fast and tuneful-- not window rattling, but balanced.
Talk to John for his advice, too. |
Ron,
I would give heed to what Mapman says about the amplification you are using as he has quite a bit of experience with Ohms.
Still, if you are unwilling at this point to consider a different amp, then I think playing around with speaker placement is a must for you. It would be helpful to know the size of your room, limitations, and listening position.
Before you abandon the Ohms, give your ears a chance to get accustomed to their sound and experiment with placement.
Not sure of your budget and what it is that drew you to the Ohms in the first place; you might also want to check out the Ohm Walsh vs. Mirage OMD 28 thread. As has been written there and elsewhere, the Ohm models are voiced very similarly with the main differences being base extension and SPLs. In the Ohm/Mirage thread, it has been noted that the Mirage 28 has good base.
Good luck in your search. |
Ron,
Are you getting a big soundstage and reasonably detailed imaging at least at this point? If not, your ears may not be tuned in to the omni presenation yet. That can take time depending. It took me a while even when I acquired the series 3 driver based models and I had owned OHMs for years prior.
If your not used to omni's, you might want to give your ears a chance to adjust to the different presentation. ALso the OHMs may take some time to open up a bit. Keeping them closer to the rear wall will help the bass.
How far apart are the OHMs and how far back are you listening from? Also, is your listening position not up against any walls?
Be sure to check basics like proper speaker wiring polarity, etc.
The unique presenation in regards to soundstage and imaging is the most unique aspect of the OHMs and omnis in general that you will not replicate with conventional designs. Once you tune into that, you might have a different perspective on the bass as well. Or possibly not. I am not an advocate of even the best tube amps in general with the OHMs. They reach their potential best with lots of current and power and also are not very efficient and have the difficult load deal going. I've found even my smaller 100S3 benefit from the 500 w/ch Class D amp I am using these days. Micros are less efficient than 100s even I believe, so I suspect the same is true with them. |
Well, I just got my Micro SE's, and I'm listening to them now. The good- highs, mids, soundstage, form-factor, and they look pretty cool. The bad- bass. It's not horrible, but I feel like I need a sub, and that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid (I used a sub with monitors for years, but I'm trying to downsize, hence, the small-footprint floor-stander). I recently sold my sub, and put my monitors on the floor (they were Tyler Taylo Reference) and they produced more bass than the SE's. BTW, supposedly, the SE's go an octave lower than the Talls. And, I don't have to bother with break-in (I REALLY hate breaking-in speakers)... John @ OHM sold me a pair with used drivers (but, new cabinets & hardware).
I have them a few inches from the wall- that seemed a bit better than when they were pulled out. My room is NOT acoustically friendly (hardwood floors, furniture all about, small NYC place, etc), and that's not going to change (unless I move).
I played one of my best sounding albums for bass (Hendrix - Band of Gypsys), and if all records were recorded like this, I'd be ok. But, so far, every other album sounds anemic. It's too bad, because I really want to like these. They do so many things right, but I can't ignore the bass (or, lack thereof). It's a factor that's too important to overlook.
As for my equipment, I have a Rogue Tempest 2 (integrated tube amp- I love this thing), Jolida phono amp (it was cheap, but I think it's one of the reasons I like vinyl so much more than cd's), Music Hall MMF-7 (no complaints), and the digital stuff doesn't matter since I don't use it. I don't want to change any of my electronics- I'm happy with all of it (esp. the Rogue). Plus, I've heard how this system can sound with other speakers, so I feel it's fine.
Damn, I am kind of bummed. Yeah, the SE's were cheaper than my Tylers and take up less floor space, but the overall listening experience has diminished a bit. I'm not even comparing these with the Tylers and the sub- I'm just talking about the monitors-on-the-floor setup. I really wanted to like these... damn.
I should probably point out that I've only owned box-style speakers... never had anything like the OHM's. |
Hi Al, yes the expense has been for me more than I would have wanted or ever thought of before. But you can't quit. For bass the room seems to be bad with the speakers flanking the short wall. Top to bottom bass included however has improved at least to the point that I can live with it. The sound is much more fleshed out (fuller top to bottom) in general with the new preamp and clarity too is a big improvement. And I always have subs if I decide to turn them on for stronger lows. |
Hi Emerson (Foster_9),
Glad to hear that you've turned the corner, obviously after a great deal of effort (and expense). How is the bass now, which iirc was the most significant issue earlier on? Assuming it is now reasonably good, which component change was primarily responsible for improving it?
Best regards,
-- Al |
Frazeur1, these have Walsh 5-S3 cabinets which means they don't have the rounded corners; the drivers are pre production 5000's. |
Foster, what is different in your prototype 5000's? Just curious. Glad you are getting your system sorted though. The Cary is a nice looking rig, haven't heard it yet but my local dealer is a big fan-must be why he sells them! Enjoy! Tim |
Foster,
Glad to hear it. Your patience and determination is admirable!
Nice to hear of a new winning combo (Cary/W4S/OHM). I've always heard good things about Cary products but have never had the chance to listen. |
Thought I would check in after a long hiatus from this thread. Not much to say previoulsy because I've been struggling to get my setup to sound good with my Walsh 5000 protoypes in my room. It's no fun to report when the struggle is ongoing. So I've been quiet. Been through different amps and preamps. I can finallly report that I've turned the corner and good sound is in the house with the W4S ST-1000 amp and newly added Cary SLP-05 preamp. The 5000's really do holography, imaging and dimensionality that I had not heard previous to the addition of the Cary and I haven't even rolled tubes yet. The Cary has brought a new level of palpability to the Walsh speakers. |
Bondman,
I have not fired up DSOTM in quite a while. I need to do that again just for reference in that so many know this milestone recording and I have undergone a lot of changes to my system since I last listened. |
Just a listening note: I listened to Pink Floyd DSOTM last night. This was a used library copy of the standard CD. No remastering, no SACD, nadda. Yes, some of the guitar solos were a bit rough with the volume up high (I listen fairly loud), but OMG, this was a great listening experience. I could hear more of the lyrics and spoken words than ever before. The soundstage was massive, and the out-of-phase portions of the recording were flying all around my room, even behind me (just 2-channels powered up)! The clock chimes were scarily realistic. Everything, except some of those screaming guitars (and maybe that's what the producers intended them to sound like), was just right. |
" He then proceeded to tell me that when Bob Carver presented his Sonic Holography to the audio world, he did it with Ohm speakers."
I have a Carver c-6 pre-amp (sitting idle as a backup currently) with sonic holography that I used with many speakers for years (Magnepan, B&W, Dynaudio, Triangle, Boston Acoustics). The effects were apparent on all but the OHMs. The holographic benefits were redundant and not apparent but the slight effect on tonal balance (mainly a slight low end roll off and slight brightening in timbre) were, so I never used it with the OHMs as I did on occasion with all the others. |
Map,
The LSA1 Statements are due via UPS today! I don't want to pull this thread off topic so when I have them set up and somewhat broken in, I'll report back in a separate thread. |
Bond,
I pretty much agree with everything you've written here. I'd only add that the Merlins are more revealing of upstream events and have a dynamic "jump" - especially with tube amps - that the Ohms lack. Just MHO.
Overall, I'd say that these are both outstanding speakers, but the Merlins do some things "better" while the Ohms do other things "better". "Better", in this case, meaning more to my taste.
The Merlin is a wonderful speaker. It is also a premium priced, premium finished luxury product. If you can live with the appearance, there's little doubt in my mind that the Ohms represent excellent value offering an appealling mix of performance strengths at a more manageable price point.
Marty |
Rebbi, I forgot to mention that when I talked to John, I told him that he seems to have achieved sonic holography with his speakers. He then proceeded to tell me that when Bob Carver presented his Sonic Holography to the audio world, he did it with Ohm speakers. I just busted out laughing, and told him "that's a compliment of highest order to you" I wonder what THAT sounded like?? I read on one of the threads that someone had used the Holography in conjunction with a set of Ohms, and that it was redundant, or didn't work that well. Just the fact that Bob Carver wanted to use Ohms for something he was presenting speaks volumes. I guess he heard that unique quality that sets Ohms apart from the competition. I still can't believe that you sold your 100's. Do you miss them?? Happy listening! Joe |
I think my Dyns use the Esotar tweeter. I interchange the Dyns and my 100S3s from time to time. My impression is the OHM top end is a bit more relaxed, the Dyn top end a bit hotter yet very nice. The little Dyns can be a little tizzy hot on the top end with the wrong amplification, but sublime with the right amplification. The OHMs less so. In general, I do not notice a huge difference when things are going right with either. People with younger ears that can still ehar very high frequencies might notice more of a difference I would think. Most people over 40 cannot hear the very top end of the audio spectrum above 14000 hertz or so though I believe. |
Rebbe,
How are those LSIs working out?
I was listening to my OHM Ls for the first time in a while the other day and it occurred to me that these might be just what the doctor ordered in your case. If available, I think John sells fully upgraded and refurbished Ls for $600 a pair. Also, I think OHMs usual home trial policy applies, but I am not certain.
Ls sold for $500 a pair back in 1978. They are OHMs all time most popular model in terms of units sold, I believe. I sold dozens of them back in the day, usually over classics like JBL, Advent, EPI, etc. I've held my Ls ever since + did some custom upgrading recently putting in OHMs sub bass activator circuit (also used in the Walshes I believe) and Morel woofers that I selected and acquired to replace old deteriorating woofers. I still run the original drivers and crossover otherwise. They share a lot of sonic attributes of the Walshes except in a small (but heavy) conventional front ported, 3 way bookshelf design, not unlike Harbeth. Mine have a nice enticing warmth in the midrange compared to the more neutral Walshes. I bet John's upgraded Ls probably would lay mine to waste, though mine are still a pair of speakers that I could live with if I had to. I used to use them in a small dorm room in college. Now, they are in my basement's unfinished area (see my system pics), which is actually the biggest room in the house, with bare concrete floors even.
Wish I would have thought about these sooner.
The Ls sat in the room where my 5s are now prior to acquiring them, and I was very satisfied with their performance in there as well at the time.
The Ls sound absolutely sublime with the Bel Canto amp as well I am finding. |
Joe,
Good for you! Yes, John does really go the distance for his customers! He once sent me a set of special drivers for my MWT's when I wasn't
so happy with their sound. A great guy to deal with. |
Marty - I have heard the VSMs a few times at shows, and was always impressed. A few weeks ago, I had the opportunity to hear the latest version with customized crossovers, fed by modded BAT tube amplification, a modded Atmosphere preamp, modded VPI 'table, and a very highly modded, battery powered Sony CD player (one of the high end big Sony SACD players, but the mods killed the SACD abaility of the player). Speaker cables were home made large flat silver ribbons. A modded Velodyne subwoofer was rolled in below 30Hz. I felt the sound was quite good, but not at all forgiving of overly bright source material. Plenty of dynamics, details and sustained trails of notes, excellent PRAT and leading edge definition.
The current VSMs are a speaker I would absolutely consider if I were shopping in the $10K/pr price range. I would love to A/B the Merlins with the Silverline Audio Bolero, which also uses a Dynaudio tweeter. I would say the biggest improvement I heard with these VSMs over my Walsh 2000s was the highly refined treble. On high quality source material, the highs had a smooth, liquid quality that the Ohms don't have. Not that the highs on the Ohms are abrasive or edgey in any way, just a bit less refined and delicate. The Ohms give up nothing to the Merlins regarding imaging and soundstaging. The timbre of the Ohms is also as good as the Merlins, except perhaps the VSMs beat the Ohms in timbre of the very highest frequencies. That Dynaudio Esotar tweeter, combined with that custom crossover, is very special indeed.
That said, I feel I got pretty darn close for less than one third the price with my 2000s. Additionally, I feel the Ohms are kinder to poor source material, which means about 90% of the music I own and listen to! |
Just recently, I noticed a buzz comming from one of my micro talls at low listening levels, which seemed to disapear when I turned the volume up. I contacted John and he recomended checking to make sure the speaker wire in the cannister wasn't touching the cone. I told him that I didn't think that I was over driving the speakers, but he did tell me that I was driving them pretty hard, and that the 1000's might be a better fit since they will play twice as loud, and move four times the amount of air. He offered to send me another set of matched drivers for the micro talls, and I could send back the other ones. What customer service!! It was at that point that I decided to upgrade to the 1000's, since I was getting a nice fat tax return. I then asked about returning the micro talls. He told me to insure them for the full amount, but not to do so until I recieved my 1000's. He said "No need for you to go without your music" Needless to say, I was impressed. He is also sending me veneer samples to help me decide on what finish I want. In an age of incompetence and nobody gives a danm, it's a breath of fresh air to deal with someone who is willing to go the extra mile and do whatever it takes to make his customers happy. I will miss my micro talls, but look forward to breaking in my 1000's, and continue to enjoy the unique sound of Ohm speakers. I will post my impressions of the 1000's, and hope I can convince other people to take a chance and take advantage of the 120 day trial. Chances are, they will have a hard time settling for conventional box speakers once they hear the Ohms. Can't wait to get my 1000's......... |
"The Ohms image with both specificity (as do the VSM and the P/E) but with a sense of weight and body that the other speakers can't quite match"
That's a good way to describe what I often refer to as "meat on the bones", or a more lifelike weight to the presentation. To do it well requries moving a lot of air effectively. It's something that typically only large speakers can do well, particularly in larger rooms. Large speakers that also do the all the other things well also tend to be very expensive.
I attribute achieving this particularly well in a fairly compact package like the Walshes as due somewhat to the relatively large radiating surface area in effect with the Walsh driver compared to a conventional driver of similar size. IT moves a lot of air but the absolute level of pressurization of the air at any particular location with an omni is perhaps less than that achieved with a similar sized conventional driver driven similary, which accounts for the more relaxed dynamics and low fatigue factor as well perhaps.
The omni drivers used in mbls also have this going for them although their mode of operation is totally different, and the large mbl base drivers in particular seem well suited for absolute top notch dynamics. |
Aktchi,
FWIW, I've had the Verity Parsifal/Encore and the Merlin VSM (uprgrade to near current status) in the same system as my Ohm 100/Rythmik sub system. I can't compare the speakers with the subs on-line and I only ran the 100s full range for a brief time - but here's the comparison off that short full range audition:
ALL THAT FOLLOWS IS JUST MHO:
The Ohm is about as neutral tonally as the Merlin (to my ear, anyway). It's more neutral than the Verity, which is to say that the P/E is noticably warm in tonality and consequently often sounds more acoustically "lifelike" than a nearly dead neutral speaker like the Ohm or Merlin(particularly on a lot of source material that leans bright - i.e 90+% of pop and rock recordings).
The Ohm is less revealing of things upstream than either the Merlin (considerable margin) or the P/E (noticeable margin).
The Ohm is less dramatically dynamic ("jump factor") than either the VSM or P/E.
The Ohm goes a bit deeper in the bass than the P/E and is about as extended as the VSM.
All of these speakers are remarkably "seamless" in their presentation.
The Ohms might be a bit "dry" at the top vs the P/E - that is "might", as in subtle.
The Ohms image with both specificity (as do the VSM and the P/E) but with a sense of weight and body that the other speakers can't quite match. It is this quality which really distinguishes the Ohms.
Since I use (room corrected) subs (troublesome room issues), the bass comparison isn't particularly important to me in this application, so MY OWN PERSONAL bottom line is:
The Ohms are about as neutral as it gets. When run full range, they have real bass extention - sufficient form most recordings. They don't have quite the dynamic jump of the best competition. They aren't as "transparent" as the best I've heard, but they aren't slouches either. They are as seamless as I've heard. Their top end is very good, but some who are more sensitive in this range may demand a half demerit vs. the best competition. Their imaging and staging is unique to Omnis and that provides the special character that makes the speakers essentially irreplaceable to some listeners.
As always, YMMV
Marty |
hehe. I had the same issue. Luckily my wife likes how they look, and managed to tolerate the clutter for a couple of days.
Congrats on you MWT's! |
Ron - My wife asked me the same question! I actually have TWO pair of vandersteen 1Cs sitting in my basement (I replaced one pair with the 2000s, and the surround pair with the used MWTs I bought from an Agoner). When I told her the 2000s came with a 120-day in-home trial, so I needed to keep my Vandys until I decided whether to keep them or not, she understood. Good luck! |
I just ordered Microwalsh Tall SE's in Rosewood... gotta wait 2-3 weeks for them. Heh, I'm kinda banking on being able to sell my current speakers in that time-frame, otherwise I'll have some explaining to do, seeing as my main motive was to save space. ('Um, why are there 2 pair of speakers in here, now?') |
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1267197063&read&3&zzlMarkeetaux&&Vertically mounted/downward firing speakers (like OHM Walshes) can interact strongly with the floor, particularly acoustically lively floors like wood floors, etc. The thread above talks about this scenario which is more common with subwoofers but also applies to the OHM Walshes, so I though it would be of interest to those in this thread. |
Just a word of praise for John and the boys at Ohm in terms of the packaging of their speakers. My 100s arrived at their new home on Monday. Fortunately, I had saved all the original packing materials -- and I can tell you that repacking those puppies was not easy! Still, my heart kind of fell when the new owner e-mailed me to say that one of the boxes was seriously roughed up by UPS. But John once told me that he considers their packaging material to be "a sacrificial offering to UPS." Anyway, the 100s are QUINTUPLE boxed at the factory, and between two outermost nested boxes are sheets of plywood. So, in the end, the speakers came through unharmed. Whew! :-) |
Thanks for the info. on your 5's Map, so basically you feel like you have plenty of adjustability overall for most situations in your room other than odd/drastic frequency anomolies then? I am just getting a feel for that in case I do think about the 5000's in the future.
Have been listening to my 3/3000's a lot this weekend, the "fuzziness" is already smoothing out, and I am just being patient with the lower mids/bass right now. Things are very enjoyable though! Enjoy the tunes guys, Tim |
You can go to the factory and audition them, which is an advantage very few of us have had. That is cool!! I think once you hear them, you will have no doubt in your mind that they're special. Then once you get them home, you can experience them in your own listening space, and you'll hear why we've been singing the praises of ohm speakers. Call John and set up an audition. Please post your reactions. Good luck!! Joe |
Thanks for the responses, and clearing things up. I think I'm gonna go for the micro talls if/when I sell my Tyler's (I lowered my price to hopefully speed things up). The OHM factory is actually only a mile from my apt, which is kinda cool. |
The last song on cd1 of the box set "Cowabuunga: The Surf Box" is "Shoot That Curl" by Chris Montez. The last few minutes of this is ocean wave sound effects. These are something to hear on the OHMs. Close your eyes and turn the volume up a bit and you will be convinced you are out in the surf shooting that curl wit the waves pounding all around you. Awesome! |
'Map, what kind of differences do you get with your 5's and the switch settings when your speakers are placed in different positions, such as pulled out from the wall, or against a wall?"
When closer to the wall (<2 feet or so) the location setting (essentially affects the mid-upper bass) goes down a notch. Normally, they are out about twice that distance in that the long section of my L shaped room where I listen is a good 30 feet deep or so and the location setting is up a notch there normally.
My L shaped room where the speakers are located is not symmetrical The right speaker is always generally well less than 2 feet from the right wall. The left speaker is essentially free standing with the left wall another 10 feet or so to the left and in front of and just inside the left hand wall of the listening area (in teh length of the L shape, if that makes any sense, see my system picture to get the idea).
I typically have the placement control on the left Walsh 5 set to either free standing (highest) or wall (middle setting) and the right Walsh 5 set to either wall or corner (lowest setting) depending on distance from rear wall.
The separate "Room Size" setting is generally set to "medium" for a medium sized room. This is the low range bass control that you adjust based on room size. When I set this to "Large" room size, I find just a tad too much low end which tends to mask detail at higher frequencies somewhat.
The presence/midrange and treble settings are generally left at the middle level settings these days and both speakers have a slight toeout in order to consolidate the soundstage just a tad between the speakers and in front of my somewhat narrow (~ 10 feet or so) listening area. |
Map, I might be able to play around with this option at some point. I have a lead on some old drivers/cans that would be fun to play with. I think most of the lower mids might already be somewhat omni, not sure though, and maybe it depends on what model.
I know the old 3XO's and maybe even the 4's had a layer of felt on the backside of the can that could be taken off, but again, not sure about inside the can and all those details. I would imagine the sound would vary some depending on what was behind them.
My room is a little odd in that when I do move the Ohm's out in my critical listening area, I have basically an entryway behind the left speaker, and a hallway behind the right one, so effectively an open area. I don't get much reflective sound this way, which I don't know how much that happens anyway and to what degree if the speakers were placed along a long flat wall behind them instead.
Map, what kind of differences do you get with your 5's and the switch settings when your speakers are placed in different positions, such as pulled out from the wall, or against a wall? I can imagine there are many possibilities but does it change the overall presentation/sound much? Just curious, maybe someday I will find out! Tim |
'I often wondered what they would sound like in that setup if the back of the driver can wasn't attenuated some"
I wonder about that too. They'd be an obstacle there for many and larger drivers might be needed to retain bass levels but would the soundstage depth and perspective match up to MBL closer then?
If I had my old Walsh 2s still around (I used them for trade-in) I'd be tempted to open up the cans and do some surgery myself there and try it. |
Ron, I'm also in NYC, I've had my MWT's in a couple different rooms in my apartment, and never tweaked a thing. I think it's more about the sound of the room, vs. where you're sitting. As long as your room isn't too live, the MWT's are the best small speaker! The MWT's drop to about 4 ohms at the low frequency cut-off, but are over 8 most of the time. If you have questions about compatibility, ask John over at Ohm. |
I haven't tried the "music in the round" yet, but I have pulled the 2's pretty far out in the room just to see what this would bring to the table. Bass suffers a little bit, but they still did the staging thing very well. I often wondered what they would sound like in that setup if the back of the driver can wasn't attenuated some.
I think positioning in general with the Ohm's can be as tweaky as you want to get, but they generally sound very good no matter how they are placed within reason. I love that my 3's have the casters on the bottom, makes it so nice to wheel them out from the wall that my A/V stand is on, and move them where they do sound best.
When I am not in the "critical listening mode", they can just stay put, which is about 10" from the wall in front of me, and spread about 6' apart. Pulling them out so the plane of the speakers are beyond the TV screen usually works nicely for video. If in the music zone, they get moved out in the room about 2' and spread apart about 8/9', which still leaves about 4' on either side of each speaker. My listening position is about 7/8' away. Still fine tuning though!
Still in break-in mode on the 3000's, enjoying them very much at the moment! Tim |
Yeah!
Ron- the whole reason I went with the Ohm's initially was placement. I HATE the idea of being stuck in 1 'sweet spot' to listening to quality music. I did a years' worth of research before I bought them.
there were lots of other speakers that I loved, especially the Sunfire CRM-2's, that I had to cross off my list because of placement issues.
All I can say is that the Micro Walsh Talls delivered everything I could ask for as far as ease of placement, with enough flexibility to tweak if I want to... |
"he most interesting thing I've done so far is to move them all the way in the middle of the room, while friends sat around them in a circle."
That's cool! Gotta try that sometime.
I ran my original Walsh 2s outside on a farmhouse porch fully cranked once years ago for an outdoor college party (off an 80w/ch Tandberg receiver). That was something to hear! It was like a music festival with the porch as the stage! One of my all time great home audio memories! |
"So, yes, reading about the placement tweaks had me a bit nervous."
More than any other speaker I have heard or owned, the Micro Walsh Talls have been a joy and a pleasure to work with. They sound great almost anywhwere and everywhere, and at the same time respond to optimal placement with a sonic reward I didn't expect.
I have mine about 1 ft from the rear wall and 5ft 6 inches apart for casual listening and movies. I move them out about 3 ft for 'power listening.
The most interesting thing I've done so far is to move them all the way in the middle of the room, while friends sat around them in a circle. Everyone was blown away by what they heard at the sides and at the rear of the speakers. |
"Yeah, I've read that they have a wide (or "big", or something) soundstage, so I always thought that meant I could spend less time worrying about the sweetspot. "
The soundstage will generally be big regardless of placement as long as they are not too close to each other. Imaging focus and detail and bass levels at a variety of listening locations are the things that can reap greater rewards with proper placement. You will generally want to determine the best placement initially from the typical "sweet spot". Once that is done, the resulting soundstage, imaging and coherency should remain in play from most any location. |
I still don't get the impedance thing, but if I go with these, I'll call Rogue- they are always really helpful.
Yeah, I've read that they have a wide (or "big", or something) soundstage, so I always thought that meant I could spend less time worrying about the sweetspot. But, I don't have the patience for a million tweaks- I'll do some basic moving-things-around, but not much else. So, yes, reading about the placement tweaks had me a bit nervous.
I need to sell my Taylo's before I can buy anything, though. |
Ron,
What Mapman said. You can't go wrong with that trial period, and you may find that you really love them! And 90 watts is more than enough power to drive those puppies to very loud volumes in a small-medium sized room. |
Ron325, Sorry if we scared you with the 1/2 inch toe out and things like that. From what I've read, the Ohms are pretty forgiving as far as placement, but if you take the time to fine tune them to your room, you will be rewarded beyond expectations. I'm still amazed by my micro talls, and am contemplating upgrading to the 100's/1000's when I get my tax refund. I hope you decide to give them a test run. I took a chance and I'll never look back Joe |
Ron,
6 ohm is a nominal value, actual impedance will vary up and down from that depending on frequency. Low frequencies have lower impedance in general I believe. I'd probably try the 4 ohm setting first for best bass performance.
With the OHM in home trial policy, you can certainly try things out to see how well they work with your amp with no real risk. |
