Okay......best single box reference CD player

Dcstep,

You are right. Trained ears can hear things less trained ears cannot even when older.

However, the time in which Mario correctly navigates a course can be measured and compared. And there are a lot of young pups out there who can maybe beat him now.

In the end, all that really matters is what sounds best to each person, or more realistically, what sounds best that that person can afford.

So I'd assert the question posed in this thread is a moot point, but still intertesting in that it does bring out useful information and some interesting opinions on the topic as well.

DC,

One other point I would agree with you wholeheartedly on is that there is no substitute for experience in listening closely to live music (particularly acoustic music) when it comes to making a determination about how good a system or component sounds.

Acoustic music played live is the real thing....the reference standard.

Yes, being a musician and/or hearing a lot of live acoustic music is a big plus. You get very good at hearing timbre and dynamics, particularly as a musician, since you're responsible for making it happen.

I have know several non-musicians that developed very good ears, so it's not exclusive to musicians, but they do tend to listen to live music also. In all my years as an audiophile I only met one person with really great ears that I trusted that claimed that she'd never been to a live concert. She'd been in audio as a dealer for over a decade when I met her. I think someone helped her build a very good first system (it included big electrostatics -- Beverage, anyone remember those) and by using that as a reference she then got to where she could pick between various lesser products. I consider her the exception, but I'm certain, based on her experience, that it can be done.

Dave

Garebear,

If you audition other players mentioned here or others compared to your current dcs, please share your findings here.

Thanks + Cheers!

..by the way gentlemen, the Ayre C5xe is a single box player, and as I said before has to be used in balanced mode. I heard it set up this way with dcs and through Audio Research top electronics and Wilson Alexandrias. The results in the room were defined by the tastes of the listeners...the music being played, the strengths of each of the units. The Ayre should be auditioned correctly (as should all exquipment) before final judgements be dictated as truth.