''Óriginal parts'', ''identity '' and ''retip'' conundrum

Dear pindac, I assume you are familiar with the saying about ''rules

and exceptions''. I ''covered'' the case of retippers and their ''possible''

stock of not anymore produced styli (Geiger, VDH, etc.). There is

no evidence that manufacturer also keep ''old styli'' in their stock.

General statements, so to speak, don't cover all possible cases.

My intention was to dismiss prejudice about retips. Think of new styli

in comparison with, say, elliptical kind. My experience is that new styli

are much better. Besides ''old kind'' can be worn out. 

@nandric
>The reality is that all styli and cantilevers are not produced by manufacturer but by, say, two Japanese Jewel companies.

This is more likely to be true for styli, less so for cantilevers and the other components that comprise the cantilever assembly. In my earlier post on this thread (dated 12-24-2021), I listed multiple examples of how components can be (and are) provided to Namiki / Ogura by cartridge manufacturers. Namiki / Ogura do not have the right to resell components or materials provided to them by a cartridge manufacturer (or designed by a cartridge manufacturer) unless there is a written agreement that allows this.

To add to the previous examples, when there was a shortage of boron a few years ago, some companies who depended completely on the two Japanese Jewel companies for supplies of boron were forced to cease production of certain products <https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/jico-sas-is-currently-out-of-production.500921/>. The two Japanese Jewel companies did not have boron production facilities, and were therefore incapable of replenishing their inventories unless they could first find alternative material suppliers (which took time).

However other companies, including Lyra, possessed their own inventory of boron, and were able to supply the two Japanese Jewel companies with cantilever materials so that production remained unaffected.

Although the angle at which the stylus is mounted to the cantilever does not depend on the cartridge manufacturer supplying key components to Namiki / Ogura, it should be tailored to the rake angle that the cantilever will assume relative to the LP, so that the dynamic SRA (with VTF applied, and playing an LP) becomes 90º.

For example, if the target cantilever rake angle is 20º, the stylus-to-cantilever angle should be 70º; a 21º cantilever rake angle requires a stylus-to-cantilever angle of 69º, a 22º cantilever rake angle requires a stylus-to-cantilever angle of 68º, a 23º cantilever rake angle requires a stylus-to-cantilever angle of 67º, etc. IOW, the stylus mounting angle plus the cantilever rake angle should always sum to 90º.

Although many cartridges have cantilever rake angles in the vicinity of 20º~25º, there are cartridges with cantilever rake angles of 28º (Ortofon) or 30º (Avid). Fitting a stylus mounted for use with a 20º cantilever rake angle in a cartridge designed for a 30º cantilever rake angle will cause a 10º SRA error.

This is why cartridge manufacturers typically specify customized stylus mounting angles to suit the body or cantilever rake angles of a given cartridge design.

That said, it is possible for a retipper to accomplish much the same thing - by either stocking a full range of cantilever angles (60º:30º, 61º:29º, 62º:28º, 63º:27º, 64º:26º, 65º:25º, 66º:24º, 67º:23º, 68º:22º, 69º:21º, 70º:20º, and this is ignoring vintage cartridge models which may have had cantilever rake angles of around 15º), or individually installing each stylus onto its cantilever once the recipient cartridge is in hand, so that the final, dynamic SRA becomes 90º.

Regarding rebuilds vs. retips, let me first state that different manufacturers (especially those whose native tongue is not English) may use the same words to mean different things. In fact, some companies may use the terms 'rebuild' and 'retip' interchangeably.

Personally, I consider 'retips' as meaning replacements of the stylus (and cantilever, if it is required), only. These are mostly performed by non-original retippers, since the original manufacturer is likely to prefer a full rebuild (reasons and explanations given below).

After a cartridge is played for hundreds or thousands of hours, more than just the stylus or cantilever are likely to become worn, bent or broken. Suspension wires are prone to take on a permanent set, dampers frequently lose resilience or harden, joint-pipes can bend or corrode, coil wires can short out or break open, signal output pins can become bent or twisted so that they spin freely, magnets can lose strength, screwhole threads can become stripped, polepieces can corrode or crack, anodizing and plating can come off cartridge bodies, and so on.

A rebuild is when the original manufacturer performs a 100% replacement of all components that are likely to see any wear or degradation. Rebuilds are what manufacturers prefer, since the cartridge will be returned to as-new, perfectly functioning condition. And since it takes longer to tear down a cartridge and send out all of the pieces for deep cleaning / rewinding / replating, often the manufacturer will replace the used cartridge with a brand-new one.

Rebuilds also give the manufacturer a chance to incorporate any improvements which may have been developed after the recipient cartridge was produced - for instance when Lyra made a revised 'i' spec Titan, any Titan that was returned to us for a rebuild was automatically upgraded to the 'i' spec (unless the owner specifically requested otherwise).
We are following the same policy today with the Lambda spec Atlas and Etna - any Atlas or Etna returned to us for a rebuild will be upgraded to the Lambda spec, unless the owner specifies against the conversion.

@pindac regarding 'equivalent parts', again I cannot speak for other manufacturers, but Lyra can perform 100% authentic rebuilds for any Lyra-branded cartridge that was made from around the year 2000 and later. No equivalent parts involved or needed.

For earlier models that used 'Ceralloy' cantilevers, although we originally bought kilograms of the metal, we either have exhausted our inventory or are very close to running out.
My opinion is that a manufacturer should acquire at least enough inventory of exotic non-standard materials or key components to support servicing for at least 10 years, preferably longer. The exception would be if the product was specifically offered as a limited-production run, where it was understood by both manufacturer and buyer that as supplies of key materials / components were depleted, production would cease. Such cases are quite rare.

hope this helps

@nandric , reripped? I do believe that is a digital term. Are you converting?

I also think you need to delve a little farther into neuroscience. You are assuming terrry is right handed.

@jcarr 

           Thank you for your input and making it known that the Lyra Cartridge Brand are able to make the parts selected from the time of the design and final production of their models available to be used on returned Cartridges for a very long period following the Models release.

It is quite comforting to know that if a used Lyra was purchased by myself, it can be returned to a function that will be very closely or even a match to the model when purchased new.

In relation to the 'Ceralloy' used on the earlier designs from the Lyra Company, would Lyra offer a rebuild of a Cartridge from this era, to be offered to a customer where a 'equivalent ' Cartridge will be the proposal for the outcome of the rebuild and where a technicians assessment of the alternative parts to be used would qualify the term 'equivalent ' as being the correct description ?

If the Rebuild did take place, would the end product produced, become a bespoke version of the model with the 'Ceralloy' material used in the design ?

From my end, I would not have any concerns about the Bespoke Design produced, my experience has shown this outcome can be very advantageous to the end user.