Another vote for the Border Patrol DAC. I had mine upgraded by BP to the DAC SEi, which features better capacitors. It now sounds even better. I really find myself asking what more do I need in a DAC? It's really good and encourages long listening sessions.
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TEAC NT-505
DSD-22.6MHz/PCM-768kHz/32-bit dual-AK4977-mono is a steal right now. Listening to nativedsd.com sampler 11.2M DSD on the HR Player right now. Not to deviate but it also does a great job at Tidal MQA with the Lumin Android app which controls it a lot better than the OEM. Plays well just about anything, does Qobuz also. Neutral and precise is how I would describe it, and a bit warm, nothing strident so far. Huge upgrade from my HD-DAC1/Bluesond combo. |
@canibefrank +1 lol, very funny. As some others are echoing. There is no such thing as warm DAC. Get something that does not distort the input signal or the output signal. A good DAC can convert properly, when you say you want warm or something else it will mean you are intent on getting a subpar DAC. Why mess with source so early in the chain?. This is my opinion anyway. |
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Border Patrol DAC is "warm-ish" with the standard tube, more so with a Mullard Great Britain EZ80. I primarily listen to analog. I have a analog bias. The Border Patrol moves digital music closer to analog. Can make a CD sound very nice. I also like my Schiit Yggy - decreased warmth but more detail. These two DAC's have turned me off on my Benchmark, Oppo, and W4s DAC's. |
TEAC NT505 has the sound you are looking for. Concerning support, all the manuals, drivers, firmware are all on line to download and in English. Onkyo is providing US support, distribution and I assume warranty issues. It is very new in the US and I think support from Onkyo may not be 100 percent in terms of product knowledge. You can purchase through Quest for Sound. They have a web site and I purchased mine from them. Great place to deal with. I'm very happy with the DAC and it's chip, Verita AK 4497. High end chip same used in high-end Esoteric DACs. My only complaint, it is not yet Roon certified. It does provide MQA unfolding, great Bluetooth connectivity, network and USB ready along with coax and optical. Provides both balanced and unbalanced in/out taps along with very high DSD upscaling. The price is very reasonable. |
Audio Note's philosophy is to build high quality components at many different price points. Entry level shares many of the parts and design elements as higher level gear.Thanks very much! |
Forsooth... Audio Note shows a bunch of DACs on its website, but with no detailed information on any of them, including price. Why are so many models needed? Audio Note's philosophy is to build high quality components at many different price points. Entry level shares many of the parts and design elements as higher level gear. Pricing on DACs range from about $3000 to $100K, starting with the DAC-One up to the DAC5. They are tube based NOS Dacs and present organic, realistic sonics. No affiliation, just a very happy owner. They can be found on the used market. |
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North Star Supremo and Excelsio. The es9016 based DACs from NSD are more neutral but these two are very smooth and engaging. I cant believe nobody mentioned Chord. The Hugo series is excellent. Another nod can go to the AMR gear. I’d assume the new iFi Pro iDSD would have a similar tone but I haven’t heard it. Marantz gear is musical with just a tad bit of bite to it. I’d recommend the HD-DAC1 or the higher end SACD players. Any tube based dac should get there but then you might be chasing tubes instead of the dac. |
The specifications for the TEAC 505 look pretty good. I was discouraged from purchasing a used 505 on the grounds that the unit's documentation would be in Japanese only, and that there are questions about TEAC's customer support presence in the U.S. I would be interested in hearing about TEAC documentation / support / repair issues with respect to this equipment from Audiogon readers. |
The TEAC 503 and 505 both produce a wonderful sound which leans towards the warmer or analogue side of digital conversion. The unit can come as a simple plan DAC (UT) or Network and DAC unit (NT). I suppose they might be considered a poor mans Esoteric DAC or Network player. I have the NT-505 and love the music it makes from 1s & 0s. I can listen for hours without listener fatigue. |
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Take a look at the Doge 8. Full tube analog output stage like the Lampi but signnificantly lower price." Wow, I haven't read the review yet, but the Doge 7 looks very impressive for less than $1600. Doge website: http://www.doge.audio Review: http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/doge7_dac_e.html |
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Hi- Take a look at the Doge 8. Full tube analog output stage like the Lampi but signnificantly lower price. In fact, compared it at a friends house to his $15k Lampizator. The Lampizator sounded more organic, but the Doge 7 (with NOS tubes) was pretty close. And This comes from a warm vinyl tube guy. |
"Laid back IMO is a warm relaxed sound not to forward. There is more to it than simply the dac as tomic601 points out but over the years I have had a couple of pieces with wolfson and they seemed to have that similar sound." "Cirrus Logic bought out Wolfson so I have no idea what their newer stuff in the last 3 or 4 years is like. Best to try and get a listen to as many as you can." @djones51 -- OK, thanks. Just wanted to be sure. As @jriggy said, I guess the term "laid back" could be a bit ambiguous, but I guessed that you meant 'on the warmer sound.' Thanks!! |
To some “laidback” means relaxed or more gentle sounding. To others it means the soundstage is at as well as behind the speakers, as opposed to ‘forward’ which pushes the sound projecting at you infornt of the speakers. It’s usually a laidback vs. forward thing but many also think the first example of relaxed. Or maybe even both. |
The chip is important but many many other things must be done right.... my list chip or no chip ( a ladder DAC can be built using an array of very high precision resistors, most chips but not all are delta sigma filters... what measures good may not sound that way - see Ayre white paper Charlie Hansen clock accuracy and clock philosophy inputs I2S, USB, SPDIF, AES, etc... some sound radical different control of RF and other nasty noise in digital circuits near sensitive analog signals - faraday Cage- see Aesthetix power supplies - well regulated and separate for analog and digital sample rate and formats religious wars.... analog outputs A whole book on this... get a good book |
ARC? What is this, a company, a DAC model? Can't find anything on it, except there is a company named ARC Audio which seems to be all about automobile audio. Audio Note shows a bunch of DACs on its website, but with no detailed information on any of them, including price. Why are so many models needed? Not explained. Not doubting the quality of the DACs. Thanks! |
The CJ ($2k)is out of production as is the MSB Analog ($7-10k) the Ayre QB-9 can be found ...$2k even less for non dsd pandora w CD is a Romulus pandora new is about $6k sig $8k ish the Lami you got right, I stole mine lightly used for $1,400 w Tube power supply ARC would be DAC3-DAC8 with used prices all over map... the Ayre Codex delivers a lot of value |
Hey, guys, thanks for all your input. Well, I didn't know just how high some DACs could go, and I do mean price-wise. Below I have tried to list all the DACs that have been mentioned along with some reference information about each, including some specs, price (if I could find it), and a web site. Now, do all of these DACs sound "warm-ish?" :^) All of them? ----- LampizatOr DAC 7-day audition policy Power amplifier with built in DAC. USB input only, analog XLR balanced inputs (bypassing the DAC), no SE inputs, no SPDIF, fully balanced topology, Pentode outsput stage balanced push pull without phase splitter, Pentodes in ultralinear mode, EL84, 10 WPC. Big 5 chassis. 5000 Euros (does not include VAT) - from Poland LampizatOr AMBER II DAC a price range real people can afford. Amber DAC Black, blue eye ring One USB with PCM32 bit / 384 kHz DSD64 -128 Auto-sensing PCM/DSD 1 Toslink/SPDIF input up to 192/24 bit Premium Capacitors 3 years warranty https://www.lampizator.com/dsd-dac-1/ Price: 1800 Euros ----- Schiit Bifrost Multibit DAC $599 D/A Conversion IC: Analog Devices AD5547CRUZ Digital Filter: proprietary Schiit bitperfect closed-form digital filter Analog Stage: precision I/V converter and output buffer based on AD8512 Inputs: Coaxial SPDIF, Optical SPDIF, USB Input Capability: up to 24/192 for all inputs, including 24/176.4 Input Receiver, SPDIF: AK4113, USB: C-Media CM6631A with electromagnetic and electrostatic isolation Output: RCA (single-ended) Output Impedance: 75 ohms Power supply: 5 stages of regulation, including separate supplies for critical digital and analog sections. Upgradability: Separate, modular USB Input Card and DAC/Analog Card are snap-in replaceable. Power Consumption: 12W Size: 9 x 6.75 x 2.25” Weight: 5 lbs ----- TeddyDAC-VC 92kHz Digital to Analog Converter with volume control. Inputs: 2xCoax, optical, USB optional Sample Rates: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz,96kHz,192kHz Output Level: 2V (Fixed), 0-6V (Variable) Dimensions: 25x17x6.2cm Weight: 2.2Kg $1250 https://www.teddypardo.com/dacs/teddydac-vc.html ----- Wyred 4 Sound DAC - 2v2 ESS Sabre 9028PRO chip $2,300 ESS Sabre 9028PRO 32 bit DAC chip support up to 32-bit 384kHz PCM and up to DSD256 VFD display, sample rate, vol control, and config viewing Remote control Defeatable 32 bit volume control HT Bypass inputs (selectable via DC trigger) 2x Coax inputs 2x Toslink inputs 1x AES/EBU input 1x Balanced I2S input via HDMI cable 8.5"W x 4.125"H x 13.5"D 14 lbs. Covered by a 5 YEAR WARRANTY https://www.wyred4sound.com/products/digital-converters/dac-2v2-series ----- Rega DAC $995 Selectable Digital Filters non-oversampling size: half-width, full-depth usb noise elimination usb dac 24-bit Wolfson wm8742 chip coax , digital, and usb inputs 8.8 lbs. https://www.musicdirect.com/dac/rega-dac ----- Aesthetix Pandora DAC £ 6,541.67 (? best I could find ?) Card-based DAC with three digital input slots. AES/EBU, RCA Coax, Toslink standard on digital input 1 slot. AES/EBU and RCA Coax SPDIF capable of 192KHz / 24 bit. USB standard on digital input 2 slot. USB capable of (96KHz, 24bit) and (192KHz, 24bit). 2nd USB input optional. DAC section based on Burr-Brown PCM1792A. Analog section feat. 4 vac tubes (2x 12AX7, 2x 6DJ8/6922). Remote control of all functions. Stainless steel faraday cages isolate digital, analog and ps sections. Three transformers: digital circuits, analog circuits, & control functions. All aluminum chassis construction. RS232 control. 12v trigger. Available in black or silver faceplate. Unit Weight: 35 Lbs Dimensions: 18" width x 4 3/8" height x 18" depth http://www.aesthetix.net/digital.php ----- MSB Analog DAC -- discontinued http://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/ generally, very pricey items on website ----- ARC DAC -- ??? -- Couldn't find this one... Did you mean Audio Research Reference DAC? (discontinued) ----- Conrad Johnson DAC I searched the CJ site, but could find no current products described as a DAC. The DA2b shows up on searches, but it is not on the site (AFAIK). ----- Border Patrol DAC Available with async USB input, SPDIF input or switchable USB + SPDIF. No over-sampling (NOS), No digital filtering R2R DAC chip with no output buffering. Copper metal chassis. "The USB version of the DAC features a SPDIF(COAX) output which enables it to function as a high quality USB to SPDIF(COAX) converter." Plays files up to 24/96kHz via USB or SPDIF(COAX) Tube/solid state hybrid choke input filter power supply "To our knowledge, BorderPatrol is the only company applying tube rectification and choke input filtering to digital circuits." Dimensions: W x D x H: 9 x 7x 3in (226 x 173 x 78mm) Weight: 6.6lb/3kg Prices USB or SPDIF(COAX) only: S = $995 SE=$1350 USB + SPDIF(COAX) (switchable): S = $1495 SE=$1850 http://www.borderpatrol.net/DAC.htm ----- Luxman DA-06 DAC (Entry level DAC, 2 more in series) Price: $6K in 2013?? Now?? Supported Media 2 channel SACD, CD Digital Input USB x 1, Coaxial x 2, Optical x 2, Balanced (AES/EBU) x 1 Digital Output Coaxial x 1, Optical x 1 Analog Output Unbalanced x 1, Balanced x 1 Dimensions 440 (W) x 92 (H) x 400 (D) mm Weight 11.0kg http://www.luxman.com/product/detail.php?id=11 ----- Esoteric D-07 DAC $4500 https://www.musicdirect.com/dac/esoteric-d-07x-dual-mono-dac Jacks: XLR (2ch) ×1 RCA (2ch) ×1 Headphones ×1 Balanced digital input: XLR (5 .0 Vp-p/110 O) ×1 Coaxial connector: RCA (0 .5 Vp-p/75 O)×2 Optical digital connector: OPTICAL (–24 .0 to –14 .5 dBm peak) ×1 USB port B connector: ×1 Input sampling frequencies: 32, 44 .1, 48, 88 .2, 96, 176 .4, 192 (kHz) Note: The XLR input (only) supports DSD input in ES-LINK (single) format Dimensions (WHD): 17 1/2" x4 1/4" x 14 1/8" Weight: 22 .93 lbs. ----- Ayre CODEX DAC Price: $1795 in 2015, now??? https://www.ayre.com/products/digital/codex/#DESCRIPTION USB and Optical (Toslink) inputs Headphone outputs Two 3.5mm mini-phone jacks One ¼” phone jack 3.5mm mini-phone jacks configurable to balanced mode Asynchronous transfer mode for USB input DSD or PCM input over USB Minimum phase digital filter Single-pass 16x oversampling Ayre’s exclusive Diamond output circuit Linear analog AyreLock power supply zero-feedback and fully-balanced discrete circuitry Equilock circuitry for active gain devices Dimensions: 2.25"W x 9"D x 5.25"H (5.5 cm x 23 cm x 13.7 cm) Weight 3 pounds (1.4 kg) ----- Metrum DAC Website showing 8 DAC models, from $465 to $6400 https://metrumacoustics.com/product-category/digital-to-analog-conversion/ ----- Audio Research DAC 9 No list of specs on the website that I could see, but I'm sure they're in the manual which can be downloaded. Website seemed focused on presentation, not details. http://audioresearch.com/en-us/products/sources-digital/dac-9 No mention of price that I could find, but looks VERY expensive, IMO. I'd say, at least $15,000 (my guess). ---- I think that's about it so far... :'> |
@auxinput: I feed my W4s DAC2 with a PS Audio PWT via the I2S connection which is very warm and analog sounding. Several audiobuds have listened extensively to my set up and have made the same comment. Preamp and amps are tubed, though, so perhaps that helps. By the way, have you actually listened to one of these DACs, or is this a case of an opinion based on words and not on ears? |
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Regarding NOS DACs, this would be of use: http://https//www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/handss-non-oversampling-dac-comparison-master-list.4049/ |