There sure seems to be allot of continued "BUZZ" regarding "D" amps. I am reading more and more SET/Tube users and lovers actually recommending and using them.
Breuninger, very interesting indeed. What is the rest of your set-up consist of with the MBL's including IC's, PC's and SC's. I thought I read you were using Jadis 500 mono blocks.
I actually have the same speakers as you but when I was doing the evaluations of "D" class I was doing it with Eggleston Andra 2's, Virtual Dynamic Genesis cables threw out.
Ericjcabrera, which current models and what did you go with and why, what differences did you find.
Dcstep, you own a Jeff Rowland 500 Continuum Integrate have you done any listening comparisons with any other similar designed amps such as Spectron, if so what's your take. I really like the gorgeous look of Rowland product.
B&O and their government spent a ton of money developing ICEPower. That gets you a certain base level of acceptable performance. Spectron, Rowland, Bel Canto and others enhance the base modules and move you into high fidelity. How high is debatable, but I happen to think that it's true high fidelity.
There'll always be people that prefer SET over anything else. There'll also be plenty of people that prefer high end applications of ICEPower over SET, Class A or MOSFET. There's room for all of us and, thankfully, plenty of choices for all of us.
I believe that you should pick the best speaker that you can afford, that is suited to your room, next buy the best sources that you can afford and finally match it up with an amplifier that works well with you speakers. The speaker choice is certainly a personal preference, then, by default, most of the other choices become personal preference. If I don't want tubes in my DAC, that shouldn't prevent someone else from seeking a tube-DAC.
There's nothing hard and fast about Class D and, ultimately, we need to listen for ourselves and chose according to our personal prejudice and desires.
I think they are very speaker dependant. My one audio bud, listened to the Bel Cantos (he loves their DAC) and he found them unsatisfying and went back to his big class a/b amps. I have a pair of Nuforce SE9s and they work wonders with the Mbl 101Es. But that's just one application. I think you must try them yourself and carefully work them into your system with cable changes, tweeks, amp stands, etc. to get the magic mojo.
I don't know anything about spectron, so i can't comment on it. But, I'd like to trust a bigger company like B&O that has larger budgets for reseach and the capability of marketing products at a lower price. That doesn't necessarily mean that the product should be of lesser quality (see Denon and alike). My understanding is that IcePower have created several levels of modules for different applications.
Class D amps, I remember way back in the 80's when I had a pair of IRS Infinities top of the line speakers and these were the amp design and provided with the speakers to actually drive the base tower units, this technology seems to date back some time now.
I did some listening evaluations about a year ago with Bel Canto 1000's, Jeff Rowland 501's and Nuforce mono blocks, forget the model number now but found they all did nice things but to me just were no musical enough or involving compared to mosfet design but from all the "buzz" "D" amps all seem to be improving and evolving. The threads I constantly read about Spectron specifically more so than others, allot of actual tube owners going with this product. There seems to be only a handful of Jeff Rowland in comparison and when you read what they have compared to it just does not seem to be in comparison.
Audiofeil, you being a dealer who gets to dabble with different pieces and you mentioned your preference is SET so what's your take on them? What product do you believe to be on top of the class "D" food chain list and why.
I have spoken to a few and they have mentioned to me saying I should have another listen to Bel Canto for example. I'm still looking forward to hearing Spectron mono blocks but just can not get arround my head dropping the type of money they are asking for them mainly due to the fact of my past memories and experience of the other class "D" product I had bought and being far from satisfied and at only a fraction of the price. Spectron did offer a 30 day trial not sure if they do anymore but anyone knowing class "D" product and the break-in time is very long so that just doesn't work.
When I said "cheap" what I meant was that on a watt/$ basis compared to most tube amps, and SETs in particular, you get more power for your money with Class D amps. The point being that they can be used with a wide variety of speakers vs. SETs, a point raised above.
I've heard several class D amps, including the Rowlands and NuForce at shows, but none at home. Nothing I've heard yet has tempted me to audition one at home. Perhaps that will change as the technology evolves.
I am not surprised to see many recommendations for Spectron, as that seems to be the one that's got the most buzz here and elsewhere. Looking forward to hearing it. Cheers,
Tweak1 hit on the head. Anyone venturing into class D have to rethink their system strategy. Class D transmits everything in your chain including gremlins emitted by your cords you don't even know are there before.
Same goes for digital sources. I have proven oversampling and upsampling are injurious to the signal. This, again, will not be so evident in conventional systems. Only in class D and fine SET systems do this truth bare out. Although the non-digital filter loaded DACs are few, the rewards using them is simply mind boggling.
I talk to customers daily and generally speaking those most critical of Class D amps have never heard a good example. Some have and that's fine; at least they've given a listen.
Many are skeptical and unwilling to accept new technology when in fact a Class D amp would suit their requirement remarkably well.
Go figure.
Personally, I prefer SET. However, the number of speakers properly driven by SET amps make up only a small percentage of available products.
I have a D-Sonic class D amp which replaced two class a and a/ab amps and I am astounded by the incredible dynamism, details, neutrality, etc, etc... I never heard my system sounding so realistic with true dynamics and details from top to bottom.
The fact that thanks to ICEpower modules it is possible to build amplifiers with real power (and making our planet greener) with perhaps less money (and I wouldn't call my 3K amp cheap by pop standards) doesn't mean that it doesn't deliver high quality. I just don't understand why so many people are carried away by suppositions on a product that they didn't even listen to it, but I do understand if any of you would prefer a different type of sound. If you do like neutrality, well there it is, to me it perfectly matches my power hungry, warm sounding Vienna Mahlers. I never heard them sounding so musical. I welcome technology advancement.
I have gone from Rogue M 150s and various solid state class A and class A/B power amps to class D.
My first foray was with PS Audio GCC and GCA series, the GCA 250 had a level 2 mod from Underwood HiFi.
I then bought the Wyred 4 Sound SX 500s to biamp with the GCA 250. I sold them both and replaced with a W4S MC 250/500.
I chose W4S because Rick Cullen has been building class D for various companies. Also, he has a strong reputation as a modifier. Putting 2+2 together, he brings quite a bit of knowledge to the class D game.
Like all components, W4S amps are power cord and interconnect sensitive. I just replaced a Tek Line micro Reference Xtreme power cord with their Reference. I am shocked at how much better the Reference is over the already impressive micro Reference Xtreme. Definitely worth the extra $250 when used with the W4S amp.
Ericjcabrera, you and I have a similar views regarding digital amps. When did you last hear them in your system, they seems to have come along way in the last year or so from when I last heard them in my system from what I am reading from others which I have to say intrigues me.
Sbank, there are few that have gone from Tube amps to specifically Spectron amps latest version. There is a lengthy but very good review on Audiogon from one owner and the amps he compared to which are very respected, there are others also and this is why these have peaked my interest and want more thoughts from others regarding this. When you say they are cheap, what do you mean? because they are by far inexspensive. The gorgeous looking Jeff Rowland 312/301 mono blocks leading the pack I believe cost wise and then the Spectrons come into play arround 14-15K for mono blocks with no upgrades which will even drive them up higher in cost. Have you actually listened to any in your system.
There's nothing cheap about Rowland, Spectron and a few others. BTW, these are not "digital" amplifiers, they are merely Class D.
The people that like these amps tend to like neutral, unstrained, clear sound. They demand very fine source components. If you want some added warmth to offset some glare from your CDP or cables, then you probably need to look eslewhere. Some people just want warms sounds and they should also look elsewhere.
Really? I'd love to hear from those who've gone from SET & other tube amps to "D" amps and what they like about the change. I think it's magazine/ad generated hype.
My naive opinion is that they are cheap & powerful, good for bass in a bi-amp situation, etc., but they don't sound like music. They could be revolutionary for applications like boom boxes, in televisions, etc where teeny ss amps are needed. Nothing sounds as crappy as the sound in my Panasonic flat screen tv. Cheers, Spencer
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