So many great golden era DD tables out there, what do you recommend for $1000?
Pretty much as the title says. Have been looking for a while for a decent DD table to add to my lot. Have bought a few lower end ones and ultimately been dissapointed. Now I know there were/ are literally hundreds of choices from the Japanese Golden era of DD tables. Looking for suggestions from actual owners of solid DD tables up to about $1000 . I have read and read but nothing substitutes for real experience. This would likely not be my primary table, my Garrard 401 has that position for now.
You're right Lewm in your recollection of JP Jones' skepticism about Victor's Patented Bi-Directional Servo...... And then Hiho (I think) produced all the World Patent Documents for it which floored JP who said he needed to read all the documents to try and understand the principles. He never reported back...🤔 I don't think enough documentation exists for the significance of Victor's Bi-Directional Servo Control to be appreciated. It is the exact opposite of Technic's design which utilises a powerful motor with huge torque to control a massive platter. With the Victors......a lightweight aluminium platter is controlled by a medium-powered motor (sometimes coreless) combined with their various servo-controllers....with the Bi-Directional Controller utilised in their higher models.
I wasn't really floored insomuch as I'd forgotten all about it. The patent primarily claims a PLL implementation with less jitter. Maybe the TT-101 uses this implementation, maybe it doesn't. Regardless it has nothing to do with their bi-directional marketing copy. PLL servos are bi-directional.
Great stuff Bill. And yes you are absolutely correct, the export model was in Black. Mine is a Japanese model in wood and at 100vac. As far as headshell I bought two JVC branded items off eBay and both work just fine. One looks identical to my OEM one, the other is slightly more meaty and heavier. Which is a good thing as it opens up cartridge options. Mine is playing right now, have a vintage Glanz mfg610 mi Cart on it ATM. Responds really well to better carts, that 7045 tonearms is a mighty fine factory effort. A little droop at the counterweight stub is very common, mine has a tiny angle to it. I would not worry overmuch if it is slight. Best to just enjoy the music!
Can’t have his number until it gets safe enough for me to go through his stacks of gear. LOL In the US they sold the QL-A7 in a piano black finish, the Japanese market had the wood finish. So it is a 120vac model. The black finish looks very classy. Aside from very light scuffing on the dustcover and a slightly drooping tonearm stub it is in excellent cosmetic shape. Even the feet look good. I love the UA-7045 tonearm and the way they incorporated the semi auto mechanism into it. It uses a sensor with a light curtain to detect the end of a record, that fires a solenoid to lift up the arm. When playing, the arm is totally divorced of any mechanical parts that might influence it. Very smart design.I’m on the look out for spare headshells for it. It came with the OEM headshell so I have that. Do you know what other model JVC TT came with the same one? I have several Denon DL-103 carts. A stock DL-103, a retipped DL-103s with a fine elliptical and a DL-103 in a wood body with a hyperelliptical. The later two carts I just picked up from VAS after he serviced them. Using a AU-320 SUT. So far I’m just using the stock DL-103, I want to get some play time on it before switching. I think these tables are way under valued for what you receive. I doubt the same performance in a new table could be purchased without spending more that a few thousand dollars. Awesome motor package with a really good tonearm, the plinth is the weak point but can be fixed with some reinforcement underneath. My buddy has been into JVC tables for a while now, he just picked up a QL-Y66F in a trade. Someday I hope to hear that in his setup. Now I understand what he was talking about. BillWojo
Well can I have his number? Lol. Seriously though as you now have found out it is really a Victor TT-71 packaged up for sale as a JVC unit with a semi automatic version of the UA-7045 tonearm. I hope you are using it with a step down transformer? As far as I am aware the QL-A7 was a Japan home market only offering at 100vac, thought the USA version had a slightly different name but I could be wrong. What cartridge are you running on it?
I found it on AK's Bartertown. One of the members had it and I expressed interest. He brought it along to an AK get together at a members house and I was stoked, it looked beautiful. He had advertised it for 300 bucks and when I reached into my pocket he said to just give him 250, he was glad to see it go to a good home. He has a bizzillion tables and other gear, he is just trying to make room. I fell in love with it's looks but when the stylus hit the record, it was like WOW. I never gave JVC much thought before this came up for sale, after researching it I knew it should be good but I wasn't prepared for this. It really is a nice table.
"As far as I know Micro never moved from direct drive to belt drive. They
simultaniously offered a range of direct drives (DD-series) and belt
drives (BL-series). That being said, they went much higher end with belt
drives (RX- and SX-series) than they ever did with direct drives. This
might suggest that they had stronger faith in the capabilities of belt
drive. There's one point in their 80's catalogue where direct
drive and belt drive sort of converged. This is the 1500-series
platform, which offered the DDX-1500 direct drive (their top direct
drive model) as well as the RX-1500 belt drive, which was the entry
level of the big Micro's. It could be upgraded to include all the
features also found in the highest end models, including gunmetal
plateaus, air bearing and vacuum disc stabilizer. It would be
interesting to compare the DDX-1500 with the basic RX-1500 (with
aluminum plateau and the motor drive attached to the unit), using the
same armboard, tonearm and cartridge. This would be a fair 'shoot out'
between direct drive and belt drive, all else being equal. Has anyone
ever done this?
The designer of the top belt (or string) drive
Micro's founded a new company called TechDas, modernising his old
designs with current technology. This would suggest that belt drive is -
and perhaps always was - his preferred technology. He's now on a 'world
tour' with the ultimate AirForce Zero. This monstrosity makes the old
top Micro SX-8000 II look like an entry level table......"
Interesting post but Micro Seiki out sourced there direct drive motors for a lot of there tables. They did not have the resources like JVC did. So it's no surprise that they concentrated on belt drive tables when the manufactures gave up on high end DD after CD's came out. I wish the CD era had been held off for a few years longer, who knows what was in the pipeline. I recently picked up a JVC QL-A7 myself. What a beautiful table, easy to use, dead silent and it just sounds awesome. Best 250 bucks I ever spent on a TT. BillWojo
I did actually" fix" the annoyance a while ago. Inverted commas as I hope it is a long term fix.
I remembered a few years back I had an old Sony semi auto table doing similar although more erratic actions at end of play.
The cure was to manually move the tonearm as far across as possible which appeared to reset the stop position.
This subsequently appears to have worked on the QL-A7 as well.
Touch wood since doing this I have had no instance of premature shut down on any album including some near 30 minute long sides with very small remaining run out groove.
Nice nice on the QL-A7. Had the QL-7 back in the day, cause I couldn’t afford the QL-10 at my pay rank, was a sweet-piece.
Regarding the arm lift at the end of play...
There are a few LP’s out there that have very short run-outs and even if adjusted (TT) correctly may still lift a tad early. Luckily those LP’s are not the norm. Sounds like yours is the adjustment. On the PS-x75 there are adjustments for where the arm starts on an LP/45 and when it lifts at the end. Unless one can find a person that’s fully knowledgable with the operations and adjustments of a given tt, it usually requires the Service Manual. They can be downloaded for free. Along with lewm’s suggestion of searching Vinyl Engine... some very knowledgable folks @ Audiokarma too.
That switching thing, way above this simpleton’s skull.
Doing the same here in looking for DD’s. But, I’m going back to those tables.
Just recently purchased a Sony PS-X75 in incredible condition, restored inside along with the original shipping container and all the originals that it came with, loving’ it. Tried to add a picture (PS-x75) here but... guess a-gon doesn’t support that. That’s too bad... it’s gorgeous.
Added it to our Denon DP-2000, SME III Tonearm w/damping trough... very nice sounding deck.
Next purchase is the Trio KP-9010. Tuff to find one with the original shipping container and all. Keep checking hifido.
After that’s acquired will be selling my TNT 5 and not turning back. Need the full auto of the x75, and semi on the 9010, as we’re getting older and aren’t so steady with our hands. The wiff isn’t comfortable with the manual tables anymore... can relate where she’s coming from. I’m still ok with the semi-auto’s for now but, definitely see that changing in the near future... Then the Denon will have to go :(
What I’ve found is this... putting the money into the phono amp and cartridge makes the difference in creating an awesome sounding DD or BD TT, they’re both a means to spin the squiggles on a disc. Either can be great with some fine supporting equipment...
Would be interested if you find the solution to the arm lift issue on your QL-A7...
But that doesn't make the servo circuit go away. It is still there! It does operate with lag and it does perform corrections within the audio band. I just can't say how noticeable it may be. Some tables will be better than others, obviously.
I meant to credit the OP of this comment, but forgot name. Sorry.
I have two good DDs hooked up now to an all-tube preamp using excellent MCs. One is a Seiki DQX-1000, good enough for casual listening but not great, and the truly great DP80. BOTH have defeatable Servos, and Manual settings hold speed perfectly.
But I still listen to Servo because there simply is NO LAG. With either DD, the "good enough" nor the DP80. Maybe any "good enough" DD by Micro Seiki is the same: Servo has spot-on speed.
So OP is wrong... though he allows for exceptions.
El cheapo experiment this morning. Bought a Spanish reading course from the charity shop, 5 x 78rpm 10 inch records to play with.
I tried a plain 78 and then a 78 I fixed some felt dots to the surface to replicate the raised dot mats I have seen . Nice to have the on the fly vta adjust for quick easy changes.
Tbh to my ears I like the sound of the plain 78 underneath. So maybe that means an acrylic platter mat may be to my taste. Oh well only $20 to buy one and see if I can successfully turn it down to 293mm.
Halcro. Good to know, the multiple Rega replacements of the glass with acrylic platter would seem to indicate that would have been the result. Even though the genuine Victor glass mat would be cool as a period accessory, it seems it cannot fly as a SQ accessory!
Gallus Did you ever look at the Manley Skipjack. It appears it might serve as a multiple phono switch, after all it was made by Manley! However I have decided to not pursue that route for now as with the new to me TT81 mounted in its huge by large plinth I do not have the room for more than that and the Garrard 401 in its equally huge by large plinth . So the TT71 is now a "back up" TT.
@lewm Actually it is a line switch, and I seriously doubt whether it would work between tonearms and phono thus my warning. Luxman also offers the AS55 which is a speaker's switch. Both are produced first and foremost for dealers and collectors in mind and are only available in Japan and its closest neighbors afaik. You are right about a custom switch, possible but far from ideal. A multiple inputs phono stage or multiple phono stages are the way to go, costs notwithstanding.
Halcro What did you think of the glass mat? Read a few articles that say acrylic was much better than glass as a full platter but hard to find anything referring just to a mat. The one I am looking at weighs 1kg so about 2lb 3oz approx. Was the cu180 much heavier than that?
I guess I could also buy an acrylic mat, Chuck it up and try to whittle od down 2 mm as well......
I've used a variety of mats for the Victors Cu180 COPPER ACHROMAT JEWELTONE GLASS MAT SUEDE MATS JICO CALFSKIN MATS VICTOR PIGSKIN MAT The best sounding in my system was the Cu180 but I felt it was too heavy for the bearing. The next best was the original Victor Pigskin which is nearly unobtainable. The Jico mats sounded good also but are no longer made.
Lewm. Even prior to this I have had my eye out for one for quite some time. Never seen one for sale yet though.
However I have just seen a genuine Victor glass platter mat for sale. Anybody have any experience with a glass platter or platter mat and just how they sound? Very intrigued by the concept.
Keep watch on Audiogon listings and on Audio Asylum Trader site. I found a Mat2 a few years ago, after BA went out of the mat business. They do come up from time to time.
Thank you Timeltel! Of course the trick is FINDING a BA mat to purchase! Would be nice to hear from a few other 71/81 owners out there as to what they are using as well.
Thank you But more the question is what mat actually fits the platter? All aftermarket mats I have seen are 295mm diameter. These do NOT fit into the machined recess on the 71 or 81 which is approx 293mm. So either other users have the mat sitting on top of the machined lip or there are some special mats out there that fit into this recess? I tried one of my cork mats and it obviously bowed heavily towards center as the edge rests on the lip which is proud. I guess a solid acrylic mat would just sit on the lip and not say into the center ....until I added my clamp. Surely someone has come across this?
I picked up a TT71 years ago "for a song" and thought the OEM mat damped HF's. Borrowed the mat from my PL 70L 11 and confirmed.
Currently running a Boston Audio Mat 2 which seems to neither add or take away from the signal. If you appreciate a "warm" presentation then you might stay with the supplied mat.
What do people here do for a platter mat on the tt71 & 81? The OEM platters with the raised lip do not allow flush fitment of any of the platter mats I have. Only the original rubber mats fit down in the recess.
Google is your friend... Lol. The Manley Skipjack was the unit. Supposed to have been capable of handling phono duties with some very impressive specifications.
Of course only used to be had now and seem to be in the region of $750 to $1000.
Something to think about and keep a weather eye out for.
Gallus, You got me interested when you mentioned the Luxman switch box, because Luxman makes good stuff. However, the AS4 seems to be made for AV systems, which is to say it's for switching high level signals, not mV level signals as seen from a phono cartridge. I think a high quality switch could be done with relays, but you would want to use only the highest quality parts and to have a smart person design and build it. So, the cost would be correspondingly high ($1000 or more, I would think), and STILL there would be an inevitable signal loss involved. I've thought about having such a switch made for my system, and my numbers are based on an actual conversation with a potential custom builder. I decided not to do it, but I do own two high quality phono stages that each provide more than one pair of phono inputs.
Got the time this morning to set up the TT81 with a Glanz cartridge for now. Hard to say at this stage if it is much different to the TT71. I do like the arm though, very well built and very easy to set up and the VTA on the fly is simplicity itself. My micro seiki ma505ls on the Garrard 401 also has VTA on the fly but the 7082 is a more elegant system and a little easier to adjust while music is playing.
I really need to stop looking at Audiogon and eBay classifieds now...….
@uberwaltz in the phono stage signals of the microvolt order pass, use of commutation boxes and switches can happen as well as worsen the sound of capturing noises and hum; don't ruin everything. Rather it changes pre phono looking for some pre amp also vintage that has more phono inputs or add another preamplifier.
@uberwaltz Luxman AS4III switch. However, the phono connection is the worst place you could ever install a switch. The rule of thumb is to keep the connection as short as possible from tonearm/cartridge to phono preamp/sut.
I basically now have three very nice tt that I like the sound and operation of each one set up in my main rig. So here are my next questions. I am thinking of having all three plugged into say a high quality passive switching box so I can easily swap from one to the other without changing cable inputs on my phono which only has one input. The question is would anybody consider this to be potential detrimental move regarding sq by signal degradation or? Does anybody do this themselves here? And lastly would anybody have a suggestion for a high quality switch box that would work for three tt inputs? Thanks
Lewm Yes I agree the auto shutoff is not a feature I would search out to own but the TT has it and I want to adjust it, I will do some research but sometimes members here can be more helpful than any manual.
Stan Getz and Charlie Byrd would sound beautiful on any turntable, I suspect. Uber, if that TT81 includes a 7082 tonearm, I'd say you'd really like it more than your QL-A7. As to the early lift-off problem, I suggest you go on the internet, Vinyl Engine first of all, and search for an owners manual (if one did not come with your unit) and a service manual. That's where you have to start. In my experience, there is no harm done to either the cartridge or the LP, if the stylus sits in the run-out grooves even for a minute or two until you can get off the listening seat and manually lift the tonearm. Thus, automatic lift-off holds no particular appeal for me.
I am finding that my QL-A7 is auto stopping/ lifting the tonearm a little prematurely for some records. Now we are talking in the realm of only quarter inch of run off left, so it is albums that are pushing the content envelope per side that are my problem.
So does anyone know how that shut off may be adjusted so the tonearm can travel a little further before game over?
Listening to a little Stan Getz and
Charlie Byrd
on the Micro Seiki as we speak. Just beautiful.
I forgot to mention that I have my turntable hooked up to a Schiit Mani phono preamp connected to Rotel pre running into an McIntosh 240. It's truly a great combo. I like the Rotel but it's just a placeholder while I save up for a nice McIntosh pre.
Was just thinking today (while listening to it) what an incredible performer the TT101 is. It was worth every bit of the aggravation I endured to get it fixed, finally. (Thanks, JP.) "Catmandude", Probably the best on line moniker I have seen yet. Congrats.
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