So you think wire conductors in cables are directional? Think again...

mahgister5,550 posts05-21-2021 8:28pm

Wow. Perception is everything...except absolute

I never said that sound which is not only a physical phenomena but also a psychoacoustic one is "absolute".... I said that sound experience cannot be reduced to measuring tools but only CORRELATED with them...

I also said that sound perception contrary to a voltmeter or a frequencies meter or any other electronical engineering tools is MULTIDIMENSIONAL and not unidimensional like each one of these tool...

Your "wow" is only a derision not an argument .....

You keep straying from and continue to derail the entire discussion. It was brought up that vision is used to figure out where sounds are coming from...eyes. It’s been studied that eyes are not part of the process, yet visual processes in the brain help process the localization of sounds...even without the benefit of having eyes.

Ahem .... I got something the objectivists can chew on. Given the complexity, this will probably take them some times. Unless, djones et al ... can possess sonar capability, hearing by itself is not going to give you accurate localization. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2674475/

The visual and auditory systems frequently work together to facilitate the identification and localization of objects and events in the external world. Experience plays a critical role in establishing and maintaining congruent visual–auditory associations, so that the different sensory cues associated with targets that can be both seen and heard are synthesized appropriately. For stimulus location, visual information is normally more accurate and reliable and provides a reference for calibrating the perception of auditory space. During development, vision plays a key role in aligning neural representations of space in the brain, as revealed by the dramatic changes produced in auditory responses when visual inputs are altered, and is used throughout life to resolve short-term spatial conflicts between these modalities. However, accurate, and even supra-normal, auditory localization abilities can be achieved in the absence of vision, and the capacity of the mature brain to relearn to localize sound in the presence of substantially altered auditory spatial cues does not require visuomotor feedback. Thus, while vision is normally used to coordinate information across the senses, the neural circuits responsible for spatial hearing can be recalibrated in a vision-independent fashion. Nevertheless, early multisensory experience appears to be crucial for the emergence of an ability to match signals from different sensory modalities and therefore for the outcome of audiovisual-based rehabilitation of deaf patients in whom hearing has been restored by cochlear implantation.

andy21,320 posts05-21-2021 9:51pmAhem .... I got something the objectivists can chew on. Given the complexity, this will probably take them some times. Unless, djones et al ... can possess sonar capability, hearing by itself is not going to give you accurate localization.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2674475/

The visual and auditory systems frequently work together to facilitate the identification and localization of objects and events in the external world. Experience plays a critical role in establishing and maintaining congruent visual–auditory associations, so that the different sensory cues associated with targets that can be both seen and heard are synthesized appropriately. For stimulus location, visual information is normally more accurate and reliable and provides a reference for calibrating the perception of auditory space. During development, vision plays a key role in aligning neural representations of space in the brain, as revealed by the dramatic changes produced in auditory responses when visual inputs are altered, and is used throughout life to resolve short-term spatial conflicts between these modalities. However, accurate, and even supra-normal, auditory localization abilities can be achieved in the absence of vision, and the capacity of the mature brain to relearn to localize sound in the presence of substantially altered auditory spatial cues does not require visuomotor feedback. Thus, while vision is normally used to coordinate information across the senses, the neural circuits responsible for spatial hearing can be recalibrated in a vision-independent fashion. Nevertheless, early multisensory experience appears to be crucial for the emergence of an ability to match signals from different sensory modalities and therefore for the outcome of audiovisual-based rehabilitation of deaf patients in whom hearing has been restored by cochlear implantation.

Ahem...I guess you did read the first paragraph of the link I posted above.

Within 2 degrees. Pretty darn accurate with using your eyes.

"The brain has an amazing ability to identify the source of sounds around you. When driving, you can tell where an approaching fire truck is coming from and pull over accordingly. In the classic swimming pool game of “Marco Polo,” the player who is “it” swims toward the players who says “Polo.” In the field of neuroscience, this ability is called sound localization. Humans can locate the source of a sound with extreme precision (within 2 degrees of space)! This remarkable feat is accomplished by the brain’s ability to interpret the information from both ears. So how does your brain do it?"

Without using your eyes. Too late to edit.

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Music for example is not reducible to physical acoustic sorry if you dont know that ....

I don’t even know what this means. If you’re claiming music is not reducible to physical soundwaves you’re wrong.

The rest of your post deals with 2. Human perception of sound.

This thread is about 1. Sound and can it be measured and scientifically tested as to be audibly different according to direction of the conductor. Yes, it can.

I find most of what you post not only wrong but demonstrably wrong. You wander off into areas not relevant to the question trying to prove your dogmatic opinion about not only how sound propagates but how humans perceive sound. The above comment about music isn't soundwaves if I'm deciphering you correctly is laughable. 

I'll quit referencing you in my posts please reciprocate.