|
Reasonably priced options:
iFi Zen Streamer, Pro-Ject S2 Ultra Streambox, Primare NP5 Prisma, Volumio Rivo.
Am big proponent of putting money where it matters most, which is DAC, not streamer. Here’s a link to a recent thread where competing perspectives on this issue are discussed:
recent streamer thread
|
oh dear. You have a $1900 DAC - not a criticism, btw, that’s still a lot of $; 3 of my 4 DACs cost less, two of them considerably so. So I wouldn’t think you’d want to spend $6300 or even $3500 on a streamer. And btw, Benchmark is on record as saying that, with their DACs, streamers will not make a difference (due to their filtering and other technology).
|
|
@rvpiano
I’m speechless. Over the course of 3 hours, you went from the N200 being over your budget to ordering one? To quote Chief Brody: “You’re gonna need a bigger boat.” (As in, better spend a lot more on a DAC, lol!)
|
@lanx0003
I don’t know man. Many of my posts on this forum are intended to help others make sound decisions when they purchase gear, regardless of how much they can spend. I will admit, it does upset me when I see someone convinced to spend a lot more money than I think they need to, particularly when the component is on essentially only an accessory, just because a couple of other members convince him that it will change his life. A $6300 streamer with a $1900 DAC? Maybe you’re wired differently than I am.
|
lol! and if you don’t hear a difference, you’ll be accused of having inadequate hearing, an insufficiently resolving system, or both. Good luck!
|
@audphile1
Surprise! Am gonna have to disagree with respect to the soundness of the decision. You - and others - are applauding the OP for spending more on his streamer than he has spent on any other component in his system, indeed more than the total of his DAC, amp and preamp combined. I know you personally feel validated because he chose the same piece of gear that you own, but in what alternate universe, given his system, is that a sound decision?
Don't get me wrong, I love his stuff, it’s a cool system. But even if I believe a $10k speaker cable sounded better than a $1000 cable, I would never advise another member to make that purchase if he had a $10k (or $20k or $30k) system. That would not be a sound decision. And I certainly wouldn’t applaud him if he went ahead and did it anyway. Your help is appreciated. But all you’re doing is providing an opinion.
|
@audphile1
Whoa!!!! But I’m ok if the administrators don’t take that down. To quote Maya Angelou: “When someone shows you who they are, believe them.”
|
Go for it. I get it. Sometimes we just want to spend money to make ourselves feel better. But keep in mind that even a dealer has advised you against that purchase! One of my favorite aphorisms: “The human psyche has an infinite capacity for self delusion.” In other words, we can, and often do, talk ourselves into almost anything. My intent was not to upset you; you did ask for others’ thoughts in a public forum after all. And so I’ve offered mine. It goes without saying that you can take or ignore anyone’s advice.
Regardless, as I indicated previously, I think you have a cool system.
|
@soix
That’s awesome, and really ballsy! Then which of your many personalities said this, in response to a member not even named MDAlton, just 7 days ago:
Streamers don’t have a sound and I agree software would be the focus.
Well that’s just completely untrue, poor advice, and the words of someone with little/no experience comparing streamers and/or has a system or ears incapable of revealing the differences. Both sound and software are vitally important, and discount either at your peril.
|
@soix
Lol!!!!! Thank you so much for that clarification!
|
OP, I absolutely agree, but that cuts both ways. Just because a streamer is cheaper doesn’t necessarily mean it doesn’t sound as good as an expensive one. That’s been my consistent point on this and many other threads. And I’ve pulled data and measurements - yes, science - in support of this proposition.
|
oh, or make your own using Raspberry Pi for less than $200.
|
iFi Zen Stream, Pro-Ject S2 Ultra Streambox, Primare NP5 Prisma, Volumio Rivo
|
with respect to streamers, Goldensound recommends the ifi Zen stream ($400), Holo Red ($800), and Pi2 Design Mercury ($600).
|
@calvinandhobbes
(love your handle!)
your experience is consistent with what I’ve been arguing here: streamers don’t have a sound. The difference across streamers is just differences in jitter and other noise. So the best streamers just get out of the way so you can hear your dac, amp, preamp and speakers. And btw, if you look at the lab reports section of the HiFi News review of your streamer, it has vanishingly low amounts of jitter and other noise.
|
Respectfully, I do not understand the posts that suggest the OP won’t know what the Aurender is capable of with his current DAC. The one thing most agree on with respect to the Benchmark DAC is that it is highly resolving, very transparent. The most common criticism of it is that it is too analytical. But regardless of where you stand on that, how can it be that an uber-resolving DAC won’t reveal exactly what a streamer is, or is not, doing?
|
@abnerjack
Yeah, I saw your post and basically agreed. As you’ve no doubt noticed, I’m a streamer skeptic, but you can’t have it both ways. You can’t claim that streamers sound different, different tonality even, and then argue that you can’t hear the difference with a revealing DAC. These two ideas are in violent conflict. What’s not inconsistent is if somebody thinks a $10k DAC is more “full-bodied”, “refined”, blah, blah blah, but that has nothing to do with the streamer. DACs sound different. Duh.
|
@abnerjack
see what I mean? ad hominem.
@soix @rvpiano
my listening obsevations from 20 (not 30, sorry) years experience is that there are no differences. And others on this forum have had the same experience. so again, not fitting into your little box, sorry.
|
@abnerjack
lol! Yeah, the dogmatists on this forum have a hard time figuring out what to do with me. They want to put me in a box that just doesn’t fit. I am a tubes and vinyl guy who thinks that measurements can provide insight into what we hear. I don’t think that measurements can possibly do full justice to what we hear in the analog realm, which includes DACs, of course. I’ve been streaming for 30 years, and I don’t believe streamers matter if they meet certain basic engineering requirements, which can be measured. And whenever we talk about noise, I think measurements give much more accurate insight than subjective listening tests, particularly for gear where the only known differences are noise (e.g., streamers, network switches, etc.)! Radical positions, I know.
I recognize that my passion on this stuff can be off-putting to some. I just see this area of the industry (streamers, etc.) as full of misinformation, and it drives me nuts. I’ve seen no credible theoretical explanation of the differences among streamers other than jitter and power supply noise. Indeed, manufacturers brag about their low jitter, low noise streamers, and yet give absolutely no data in their specs. It’s easy to measure, so why wouldn’t they do that?
The only consistent source of good data on this in the mainstream audio press is Paul Miller at HiFi News, and he shows no material differences in jitter across streamers that range in price from £500 to £33,000! Even Stereophile has stayed away from this issue. It’s a scandal, IMHO, but I’m the bad guy for trying to protect our community from this?
So yeah, it’s a little frustrating. But I figure it’s worth it if I provide an alternative view that helps a few members avoid making a mistake.
|
@soix
exactly. and I’ve not once accused you of making yourself “look utterly foolish”, because that’s a personal attack. I certainly disagree with you, but I don’t insult your intelligence or suggest your posts are “pointless.” We simply disagree. I think you honestly believe what you think, just as I do. (Reminds me of a great management aphorism though: “Don’t always believe what you think.”)
Anyway, let’s see if you can be a little more civil. I’ll break down my statements in a format that’s easier for you to react to. Why don’t you tell me, by #, which ones you disagree with, and then we can have an actual, potentially constructive conversation. (Remember, you’re not allowed to assume a statement not in evidence.)
Statement #1: Measurements can provide insight into what we hear.
Statement #2: Measurements can’t possibly do full justice to what we hear in the analog realm, including DACs.
Statenent #3: Streamers don’t matter if they meet certain basic engineering requirements, which can be measured.
Statement #4: With respect to noise, measurements provide more accurate insight than subjective listening tests, particularly for gear where the only known differences are noise.
I’m pretty sure we agree violently on #1 and #2, but I wouldn’t want to assume anything. Looking forward to your (civil) response.
|
@rvpiano
not what I said. Here’s a definition: person who believes too strongly that their personal opinions or beliefs are correct.
We can discuss further, but perhaps the person who engages in ad hominem attacks at the mere mention of an alternate view is a dogmatist.
|
@rvpiano
nope. just take a look at my first post on this thread, where I said:
“Here’s a link to a recent thread where competing perspectives on this issue are discussed:“
recent streamer
I didn’t suggest to you that the alternate view to mine was stupid, incoherent or wrong. Instead, I pointed you to a thread where both sides of the question were explored. So I’m really having a tough time understanding your hostility to me, But hey, knock yourself out.
|
@soix
you never fail to meet expectations. thank you for providing a reliable, calming source of anger and nastiness. in this moment of cultural unrest and division in our country, we have so few places where we are not buffetted by the winds of violent change. thank god for you, our port in the storm.
|
@audphile1
thans for heads up. I have a history of being a little naive regarding others’ motives.
|
@invalid
so your point is that manufacturers who charge tens of thousands of dollars for products they claim are noise-free have no obligation to show us the data they use to engineer their miracles? That’s religion, not audio gear my friend. And I, for one, will not pay $ for it.
|
@soix
There you go again. I am very comfortable with others having different views to mine. I do not have an insatiable need to fill some existential void in my soul by bullying friends, colleagues or strangers into conforming their views to mine. As I pointed out previously, my first post on this thread was as follows:
“Here’s a link to a recent thread where competing perspectives on this issue are discussed:”
I do not feel in any way diminished when someone disagrees with me.
|
@soix
My post was meant solely for you, given your need for gratuitous posts picking fights with other members. I’m thrilled that the OP, having evaluated for himself the alternatives, is happy with his purchase.
|
new technology!
You really can’t help yourself can you. Have you heard about the new option that adds smell to your streamer? Let us know your experience!
|
