Some observations from a former skeptic - and a question


I had been firmly in the camp that power cables made little difference.  A few years ago, I purchased an AQ Niagara 5000 (very nice improvement by itself BTW) and had auditioned various power cables with it.  Nothing too fancy but I found differences difficult to perceive so I just used AQ Monsoon cables. However, I continued to read how others felt power cables had the most impact which I found curious. 

I recently decided to move the Niagara to a system in another home and was planning on getting another Niagara 5000. My local dealer (who carries both AQ and Nordost) suggested I try the Nordost QB 8 MK III which he claimed to be a notable improvement over the MK II variant.

I compared the Nordost and Niagara in home and found them different but not dramatically so. The Nordost I thought a bit more dynamic, the Niagara a bit “blacker” in background.

The same dealer was surprised and suggested we do an In-store demo of power cables going into the QB 8 (great move by the local dealer!).

And there it was. The benefit was clearly there in improved spatial cues - the better cables were more “open”. I tried the same thing in my system - and same result. Unfortunately, power cables do matter. I will note that the AQ Niagara - as much as I liked it (and it was the first conditioner that I heard that made a big difference) - was somewhat negating the impact of the higher end power cables (a nice benefit in hindsight). 

Power cables don’t make as much a difference as interconnects or high quality digital cables (to my ears, in my system) but the benefits are there depending on your budget and appetite for going down the proverbial rabbit hole. 

As an aside, despite Nordost’s claim otherwise, the dealer and I both found the cable from the wall to the QB8 the least impactful and the cable(s) from the QB8 to the amp and source most impactful.

My system now is mostly Valhalla 2s (interconnects and A/C from QB 8 to components. I never expected to get here given my previous experiences.

I need one more A/C cable to complete my loom - for my processor (part of my digital stack). I auditioned a Tyr 2 and it made a notable difference. Unfortunately.

My total expenditure in cables is now equal to the cost of the rest of my system which seems crazy on the surface, but the results have been really rewarding - and more audible than most component upgrades. 

Which leads me to a question: 

How does this group think an Odin 1 (several available on this website) would match with my Valhalla 2 loom? I’m gathering many users feel that Valhalla 2s are > Odin 1s.

I could just stick w/ Tyr 2 on that unit though the cost differentials are not that great between new Tyr 2 and used Odin 1, but Valhalla 2s are up there.  

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

mgrif104

Good post. Confirms my thinking. Any part in of system has an impact on sound. Some impacts are too minute to be noticed, depending on the 'noise level' or 'quality' of the system. On a high quality system like mine ($4,000 including room($0)) and low quaity ears (came with my head) , the most noticeable impacts are repeatably found from the room and speaker side, followed by speaker cables, then the rest of analog signal chain. The rest more or less disappears in the 'noise level', i.e. the system does not have sufficient 'resolution' to let smaller differences become noticeable. 

I am convinced that increasing the resolution by using a factor of 10 ($40,000) or 100 ($400,000) for the system cost will bring out differences even in the digital path and even the power soruce/cables.

Maybe some time in the future I will get a chance to verify the above (on someone elses system, most certainly not mine) in an A/B test of for example power cable (or even a FLAC vs xxx file). 

 

When I lived in a large city 20+ years ago a power conditioner was a must.I didn't realize how much noise was on the line until it was eliminated. Now being out in the boonies good surge protection is all that is needed now as there's no noise I can perceive. I did upgrade all of the pcs several years ago with well built shielded cables that seemed to have a bit blacker backgrounds,until I got to the amp.That's where there were really noticeable differences. "The one" ended up being a silver pc from ZenWave. One of those OMG moments.

I am lucky to be friends with dealers that do a lot of trade-ins, so I get to test more things than I would be able to experience normally. I am not in the USA, and I am not trying to sell anything. My personal experience is as follows:

1. Cables matter a lot, including power cables.

2. Each electrical installation can be different; hence, the cable or conditioner that works in one place, may not be required in another. Testing is a must.

3. If you use excellent-quality cables for the electrical installation, it is very significant because it begins to improve things even before the power gets to your power cables. It adds up; almost everything matters.

4. Among the power cables I have tested (a lot), the ones that are so good that the sound improvement is significantly better than any other brand are the Tara Labs (including the ultra-expensive ones) and Crystal Cables. The Tara Labs are more expensive, too thick, and rigid, so this makes the result from the thin (in comparison) Crystal cables more impressive. They are much easier to manage, and they are pretty. Also, they are not cheap either, but they make a big enough difference in the sound quality to persuade me to migrate to them in stages, as finances allow, including the electrical wiring for the audio setup.

@soix 

glad you’re still here and posting!

For those of you who have done a dedicated circuit -something I’m considering despite the hassle - what did you put in the wall?  Standard 14/2 wire or ?

And, what upgrade, if anything, did you use for the receptacle?

Best,

I used 12/2 but many here seem to recommend 10/2 that’s probably not much more expensive and I’d think could only be as good or better but is a bit harder to run due to stiffness (I had two 20-amp lines installed BTW). I used a Porter Port, but if I was doing it again I’d probably get this Maestro outlet as it’s reasonably priced, and Enjoy the Music did a head-to-head comparing it to pricier competition from Oyaide, Furutech, etc. and it held its own.

https://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0114/audiophile_ac_outlets.htm

Here’s another one from 6 Moons FYI…

https://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/sablon2/3.html

Here’s the link where you can purchase if interested…

https://www.cruzefirstaudio.com/maestro

Just one option to ponder FWIW.

Last, went back and found some helpful tips I got here when I installed my dedicated lines so thought I’d share in case it might help — my electrician had no clue how to properly install a dedicated line for audio so it definitely helped in my case…

- If possible run separate lines for digital and analog components

- Don’t use 14/2 and go with at least 12/2 Romex

- All lines should be installed on the same leg and not share a neutral bus

Hope some of this helps, and best of luck.