To my experience, freqs above 16khz always become smoother, even if they are tilted up. 20khz freq, which is the highest audible one is ultra smooth, no matter the tweeter material. I even have found that a tilt in that end of the spectrum could result in a smoother and airier treble perception.
The hot freqs go from 2 khz to 16 khz, which are mostly related to the tweeter design and resonance, regardless of the voicing. That’s why in most of the cases a hard dome tweeter sounds hot in comparison to a soft dome, which sounds smoother. It is not a straightforward rule, but it applies in most of the cases.
What most people call treble are freqs between 5khz to 12khz. If a speaker is tilted up there, everyone will describe it as a tilted treble speaker, even if it completely rolls off above 12khz.
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Thanks again to everyone , you all really gave me a lot more perspective, a lot more tips, professional points to look for, about the speakers that ill buy.
I think ill go on the magico A1 or A3 that's my final decision for now.
Thanks again |
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@henry201 Just keep on believing it's not there...better for you.... |
@daveyf It's all good, but just to be clear, I can't hear it, because it is not there (talking about the A series). If you can hear things that are not there, I suggest a new thread. The topic, I am sure, will be popular 😉 |
@henry201 Like I stated before, if you cannot hear the high frequency issues with a beryllium dome, you are one of the lucky ones. There are a lot of folk who cannot, which is why they are still being utilized in a lot of designs. However, the rest of us tend to shy away from designs that utilize these. Having said that, there are designers who have managed to minimize the impact of the 'beryllium bite' in their speakers, they have minimized the issue, unfortunately they have not eradicated it. Magico and Rockport are two designs that have managed to IME minimize it, more so in the last few years...BUT this is still to my ears one major off-putting aspect, which is why I would choose a new YG with their silk billet dome over either of the other makes any day. YMMV. |
@daveyf No worries, I am not offended by fiction, as you can read from others who actually heard the A1, your ‘opinion’ is in the minority... |
@henry201 Sorry that you were offended by my opinion of the Beryllium tweeter. At least you did finally disclose that you own the Magico A5...and so your posts now are more understandable. Oh, and you speak of being juvenile....LOL. |
Hey,
I heard the Magico A1 several times, I did not hear the Sonus Faber speakers.
You will need to buy grills for the A1 and a healthy amplifier, that can withstand at least 100 watts per channel at 4 ohms, ֱas the speakers are very low efficiency (82 db).
The bass of the A1 is excellent, as is the treble which lacks a bit of openness. The speakers have a hollow in the upper mid-lower treble area (2-4 thousand Hz), which makes the sound a bit backward. The sound is smoothly extended, a very good speakers that require thought and money investment.
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@daveyf
No, I must say, I have never heard of the term.
Is that coming from the same source as the term ’lit up’? It sounds like a "don’t" list from a juvenile delinquent center 🤣
Thankfully, the Be tweeter in my A5 never bit me, nor did it lit up anything yet 😎
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@henry201 You know what they say about people who make assumptions. I have heard the A3’s and many Rockport models. The A3’s were not impressive. The upstream gear has a lot to do with the speakers presentation, but a hot tweeter is always a hot tweeter...and IMO almost all beryllium tweeters tend to lean that way...The term ’beryllium bite’ is something I guess you have never heard of. |
@daveyf
It is clear you never heard the A3 or many Rockport models that sound somewhat dark, and super smooth, although they use Be tweeters. A speaker can be dark or bright, hot or dull, regardless of tweeter material.
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@henry201 Who says the Magico's are voiced dark?? Do you know something we do not?? I don't think so...;0) |
@daveyf
I don’t think so. If the speakers are voiced dark how can they "lit up' anything?
Regardless, you must be lucky as well—hearing materials, but not a 10 dB boost in the highs.
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@mheinze The term ’brightness’ refers to how ’lit up’ the sound is...which has to do with the material of the tweeter. The speaker balance is dictated by said material...ok your turn!
If you cannot hear the additional ’brightness’ of a hot beryllium tweeter that would explain a lot! There are a lot of folks who cannot...luckily for them.
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I have heard the A3 on VAC gear, it was as smooth and dark as any sonus faber I have ever heard (not my cup of tea).
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i would concur that sonus faber speakers are definitely voiced to be smoother darker than magicos
tweeter construction is another matter, no particular correlation to voicing/tuning by the maker... |
I believe that the term ‘brightness’ refers to speaker balance, not tweeter material.
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@mheinze So, you are going to argue that a silk dome/soft dome is substantially brighter than the Beryllium dome in the Magico..??
Ok, you win!~~ :0( |
The point that the SF's aren't as bright as the Magico's is spot on IMO.
Not true in this case. The SF are substantially brighter. You can argue with the HFN lab report if you wish. |
The point that the SF's aren't as bright as the Magico's is spot on IMO. The Magico's can sound bright if mixed with the wrong ancillary gear.
But to be clear, I very much enjoy the sound of Magico's...and I think their line is quite fine. Having said that, i don't think the lower models are anywhere near as great as the models from say the A5 on up. The A1 and A3 are not that impressive to me. SF has changed their basic sound since Franco left the company, it is now more of the middle of the road than it was before. Franco's designs tend to be, at least to my ears, almost unbeatable. Yet, they can tip to the warm sound of the spectrum...again with gear that tends to lean that way. Magico's can never be said to be too warm! Since the SF's that I use are fronted either by a ss amp or by the aforementioned Jadis amps ( using KT150's and not KT120's) I think they are a very simpatico combo. Magico and Soulution are an interesting match up. I like the sound and I like the neutrality and detail...but I dont like the ease that the tweeter gets hot.
Probably an ideal tweeter, and this is one that I think is pretty close to SOTA, is the YG billet dome..very impressive...and the best of both worlds, IMO. |
The Sonus Fabers aren't as bright as the Magicos. Lovely speaker but when driven by a warmer tube amp like that VAC, I worry that it may drift warm to dark. If that is your preferred sound, cool. If not, be aware it is a risk.
The Jadis mentioned are KT120 and tend to be more neutral like ARC. VAC is a warmer brand. That is my only caution |
@haimr,
My observation over the years. Magico versus Sonus Faber (SF).
Very often SF owners and reviewers describe them as utterly musical, natural/organic and emotionally involving (Pulls you into the music).
Magico owners and most reviewers describe them as neutral, clear, detailed and accurate. Quite distinct adjectives used between the 2 brands. Thus my contention these brands attract (Generally) different types of listeners.
Example daveyf has SF Guarmeri Homage driven by Jadis class A mono blocks.
Very different from Magico driven by Soloution amplifiers. Very different sonic presentations.
Charles |
First thank you all for your opinions and suggestions, although i still haven't decided which loud speakers to buy, but i will and it will be soon !:)
@verdantaudio ill think about your suggestion and update you later, by the way why do you think that SF will not be matched with VAC amplifier ? why do you think that the sound of them with those amplifiers will be a bit dark ?
@doni , I still didn't consider the wilson tunetots but i think i can hear them at my country so i will consider, thanks.
@charles1dad to which different niches each of the speakers related to in you opinion ?
Again thanks to anyone who shared his/her opinion |
Hi @daveyf,
Interesting comments between you and mheinze. Would it be fair to say these two speakers very likely appeal to two different camps of listeners who probably have distinct sonic priorities? It may be just me but when I think of one brand the other does not enter my mind. They seem to occupy different niches.
Charles |
Ever consider the Wilson Tunetots? John Darko just very positively reviewed them. I’d love to be able to hear all three brands. |
@mheinze I have heard the A1's. They are an ok speaker, but certainly do NOT put the EA 111's to shame. Your post referencing glaring highs and wooly bass in the SF'S has nothing to do with the final verdict in the review that you linked to. Then to add your review of the A1's has nothing to do with the SF's. You forgot to add the verdict that the Hi-Fi News stated about the SF's...why?? |
FWIW, when we bought our (original) Electa Amators we were told that the tweeter was the Dynaudio Esotar, which we believe gives them that smooth Sonus Faber sound. I believe later versions were made by Scanspeak. The walnut and marble stands were a positive selling point for us. We have never considered selling them. |
I heard them, extensively (Distributor here has both Magico and SF).
No major minuses on the A series tweeters, you should hear them, they are superb. Not all Be tweeters are created equal (I don’t like the ones in the Focal). If you care for naturality, the A1, which I also heard extensively, is a much better speaker.
Just found the HFN conclusion on an A1 review, note the last sentence:
Hi-Fi News Verdict
For the A1 Magico has leveraged its years of engineering know-how, made sensible concessions to the bill of materials, and condensed the lot into a remarkably solid little speaker. Its design allows for great flexibility in placement, in-room, on-table or classic 'bookshelf' locations. And its sound is so smoothly extended and integrated that many an intermediate-sized floorstander will be put out to pasture.
Minor detail-----
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@mheinze The tweeter in the A series is still a Beryllium dome with all of its pluses and minuses. I would want to listen to the new Electa Amator before committing an opinion like you just stated. Presumably, you have not heard the speaker and just going off the measurements that you posted....:0( Having just read the report that you linked to...I guess you forgot to include this part: "Hi-Fi News Verdict
After many ups-and-downs with Sonus fabers over the past decade, it warms my heart to be able to call the Electa Amator III 'the best I've heard from the brand since the original Guarneri'. Yes, it's that impressive, that commanding, that correct. Above all, it does exactly what the late Franco Serblin demanded of all his creations: it reproduces music so convincingly that the listener is transported. Bravissimo!"
Minor detail----- |
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With Magico you have to be very careful with how you react to their tweeter. The Beryllium dome can be heard as very hot-- and it can also ring. Depending on your sensitivity to such things. A safe bet would be the SF's. IME, Magico can sound great, but they have to be matched up far more carefully with the ancillary gear, and since they insist on using a Beryllium dome....the aspect of Berryllium 'bite' is always present! |
The Electa Amator is far more musical. I’ve heard both quite extensively. I don’t love the marble on the bottom of the Electa, but it’s an otherwise painfully gorgeous speaker. No comparison to the Magico in that regard.
The Electa also has much more satisfying bass. |
I have owned the original Sonus Faber Electa Amators for about thirty years, and can recommend them highly. However, all the magazine reviewers just love those Magicos. You say you have heard them and thought the sound was "fantastic". Why wait, just buy the Magicos! Your ears should be the best judge(s). You'll never have to look back and wonder if you made the right choice. |
My personal preference is the Magicos. I think that is a very well made speaker and will match well with your VAC Amps.
The Sonus Faber is also a very well made and wonderful sounding speaker but I would be wary pairing it with a VAC amp. The sound may drift a bit dark. I wouldn't run anything warmer than say....ARC with these.
You could look at the Focal Sopras 1s. They are a very nice sounding speaker and should be available through most of the world.
Kef's Reference 1s are hard to drive but those amps will do a brilliant job with them. Great bass extension and a three way design rather than two way.
If you like Magico you probably won't like Raidho or Audiovector.
I would normally recommend looking at my Verdant Audio Blackthorn 1. Wonderful speaker, right on your budget. I can send you some hi-res recordings. But it really depends on what country you are in as tariffs and taxes can make it impossible. I will take them back if you don't like them.
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