Does anyone know if Sony plans to introduceTidal and MQA processing to the Hap anytime soon as an update? I like my Hap but spend a lot of time listening to Tidal. Thanks. |
I’ve been posting/updating my experience with the M50.2 CD player/digital server. I’m still waiting on the “due by the end of the year (2017)” DSD update, but for FLAC/streaming, I have no complaints. If you bargain hard, you might be able to score one of these units for ~2k, which is a good deal for a unit with AES/EBU and at least one stage of MQA decoding, not to mention integration with HDTracks and Tidal (and amazon music as well as other services).
My M50.2 plugged into a Dac2X V2 DAC, and the sound is fantastic. If NAD/Bluesound can give me DSD playback soon, I can stop searching for an SACD transport and digitize my SACD collection.
With respect to CD rips, I’ve been very surprised and impressed by the sound quality of the CDs I’ve put onto the M50.2. I’m yet to hear any tracks with any issues. According to NAD, the file checksums must match the information on the CD, so it’s pulling bit for bit copies. |
I demod this unit and have the following observations. I demod with a wide variety of music incuding CD's I ripped to it, 96/24 Flac and 176/24 Flac and DSD, My CD player for comparison is a Classe CDP-202 through a Classe SSP-600, Classe AMP and B&W 805 speakers.
If you have DSD remastering turned off the the FLAC files all sound harsh which was not usable. With remastering on this improves. However when comparing 176K/24 bit FLAC files the audio quality was not what I expected as an improvement over 96/24 and with DSD on I hear no improvement.
The Sony compared favorably to my CDP202 however it needs to be run in DSD (guess who invented DSD) remastering mode which from my reading and listening seems to limit the audio quality to about the equivalent of 96K/20 bit.
Has anyone heard alternatives like the NAD or Cambridge unit?
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Williedog - could you comment on the before and after of your ssd swap? I have a HAP and thinking of doing this also. |
If I want to replace or upgrade the HD, Does any one know, how big the Hard Disc on the Sony HAP-S1 can support, or the SSD in that case?
Regards. |
Yes, the Hap-Z1es is fully balanced. However, it inverts phase....pins 2 and 3 are backwards to the American standard. The unbalanced is inverted too. Sony is said to be addressing this issue in a software upgrade soon.
The balanced outs have a different op amp in them and different coupling caps with no bypass caps. The unbalanced outs have better Burr-brown op amps and different caps with small bypass caps. I would think the unbalanced might sound better. Never listened to balanced as I use the unit unbalanced and modified.
My modified units have the phase correct on all outputs. |
Does anyone know HAP-Z1Es is fully balanced output? |
Stereophile has now reviewed this unit, just FYI to anyone who may be following this thread. |
I went ahead and bought one and am loving the sound, especially on my bad recordings. The double DSD must be the reason. My wife loves it too, less cords and components lying around the living room and easy enough for her to use. |
I went ahead and bought one and am loving the sound, especially on my bad recordings. The double DSD must be the reason. My wife loves it too, less cords and components lying around the living room and easy enough for her to use. |
I'm also with Mitch4t. While not essential for me, a digital in will allow me to listen to Internet radio and other digital sources and possibly eliminate an extra DAC in the system. The HAP-Z1ES DAC, while not the best out there, will probably be good enough for me. The tube stage mods being offered by Vinnie and Dan may take it to a whole different level.
The HAP-Z1ES is not being targeted at people who already have a computer-based audio system. Their target is someone like me who has songs stored on computer but hasn't gone to the lengths of installing the different drivers necessary, buying an external DAC, installing a media player like JRiver, etc so I can listen to it in my two-channel system.
Do I forego flexibility and processing by not choosing a Mac/PC/DAC combo? Yes, but I also eliminate endless fiddling around with the computer audio system. |
Guys, my post on audio circle still has not appeared. However, Dan Wright addressed the issue, so you can take a look at what he has to say. Use with a transport is not going to happen. Pretty much its go computer audio or forget it. |
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Dave,
The reason I'd like an input to use it as a DAC is because I listen to Pandora and Rhapsody quite a lot. Without an input on the HAP, I'd need a separate DAC for Pandora and Rhapsody. I have to buy a separate DAC, I'd have to pass on the HAP.
It still sounds like an outstanding machine though. Be sure to get back here with the results of your 30-day audition.
mitch
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Finsup, Vinnie provided a very clear explanation of the issues. Sounds like digital in might not be a great idea on this unit. Looks like it is going to require an all in on computer audio for me to utilize the Sony. I've got 2000 CDs. My music library is already built, so purchase of hi-rez downloads is going to be minimal.
Still want to see what Dan has to say, but I will be surprised if we get something fundamentally different from him. |
Finsup, Since I am a new member the post has to be approved before it appears. I guess all the reviewers are on vacation. I will certainly take a look at the RWA site. |
Brownsfan
Still don't see your post. Was it a post or PM? I'm curious as to what Dan will say.
Vinnie with RWA now has a page on his own web site detailing his Level One mod with other levels to follow.
I asked Vinnie his thoughts about adding a digital input on his circle over on another forum. You may want to check out one man's thoughts on it. |
Guys,
I don't see the requirement for a digital input. I am totally in the digital realm with file playback through a MacMini (dedicated and optimized for processing digital files) and external DAC.
The appeal of this unit to me would be the proverbial "one box" solution for digital playback. If I can accomplish that with the HAP with a simple interface capable of playing "all" current file formats why would I want a digital input? Certainly not to feed files from my MacMini again.
Also, I have no interest in processing files from a transport (ie spinning silver disc) since all of my content is on external hard drive with the Mac.
My only concern is adopting the HAP without taking a step backwards in sound quality. If I can equal or better my current DAC, the functionality of the HAP seems like a no brainer to me.
Looking forward to auditioning the HAP on Sony's 30 day full refund trial.
Best,
Dave |
Mitch, exactly! I joined Audiocircle this morning so I could posit the question to Dan regarding his intentions on the HAPZ1. My post hasn't been reviewed yet, but I'll let you know when he responds.
He is a smart business man. He likes to hear what his potential customers are thinking up front. What a concept! |
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Brownsfan, if Dan includes a digital input on his HAPZ1 mod, it would be a no-brainer purchase for me....it's the one-box solution that I'm looking for.
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Mitch, Sony chose not to provide inputs on their 5400ES, which one would have to consider a marketing success. Eventually, Dan Wright added digital in as an option on his Sony Mod. In the case of the HAP 1Z, my guess is that we will see the same. No digital in from Sony-- The HAP 1 will stand as is for another 5-6 years. I'm guessing Dan will eventually think about a digital in on his HAPZ1 mod, which I believe is in the very early stages.
I'm going to wait until Dan commits to a ModWright package for the HAPZ1 before pulling the trigger on the Sony. A digital in on the Sony would have pushed me over the edge on buying a stock unit, but as it is, I'm in the wait and see mode. |
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Finsup, thanks for the update. If the Sony is a marketing success, the natural evolution of the machine will be for it to have inputs and to also function as a DAC....now that would be something.
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Would someone please buy the Sony unit and send it to Modwright for all of the fully pimped-out mods? I'd like to see this thing on steroids.
and reviewed.
Mitch4t Looks like Vinnie at RWA has shipped his first modded unit to a customer. Don't know about steroids but it does have a tube output stage per channel, dedicated linear power supply installation, and other things as well. I don't want a computer and all the attendant hassles in my audio system, even if that does offer flexibility. As a potential one-box solution, I think this unit is compelling - in either stock or modded form. |
Dr. David Robinson - Editor-in-Chief, Positive Feedback Online:
"Quick first impressions, as promised: the Sony HAP Z1ES proved easy to set up. All networking, both wired (CAT6 gigabit) and wireless proved to be simple, and worked the first time on both sides. Its interface is pretty intuitive, and worked very well with the HDD Audio Remote app. I've tried this on both the supplied Sony Xperian pad and my own iPad 3...both IOS 7.1 and the Android system had no problems. Installation of the HAP Transfer app on my Windows 7 64-bit notebook computer upstairs was flawless, and connected with the wired interface immediately, once I shifted to the wired subnet. (For security reasons, I keep wired and wireless networks on two entirely different Network address spaces.) I used the Sony Transfer app to copy about 110 GB of DSD files to the 1 TB internal storage on the Z1ES. Then I shifted it back to the wireless network so that I could connect with the Xperian and iPad remote control apps. No problems at all...a really gratifying result, I must say.
My VERY preliminary listening impressions are quite positive. With only a few hours on the review sample, the sonic results have been quite positive. PCM is PCM, but sounds good on the Z1ES. I had the unit set to convert PCM to Double DSD (yes, that's what the Z1ES can do), so that is likely the reason for this result.
Most of my listening has been to DSD, naturally; there the sound is natural, detailed, totally balanced, with superior imaging and soundstaging. Frankly, I was hearing a quality of sound on the first day that was better than I expected. Nice!
Since the Z1ES converts to Double DSD, I decided to copy a Double DSD sample track to the review unit, to see if it would play it. I wasn't surprised, but I was gratified to see that the Z1ES handled my sample Double DSD track without a hitch. In fact, it sounded great!
So far, this has been an exceptional experience. Sony is onto something here...at $1,999, this is a relative steal in audiophile terms.
More to come at PFO, when I flesh this all out...." |
Hi Sbayne,
Yes - we are moving forward with this and have a post about it on our forum. I don't want to talk about it here in case it violates the rules (and if it doesn't violate the rules, I'll gladly answer any questions).
Looking forward to it!
Vinnie |
It appears Modwright, Red Wine Audio and EVS are, at least, considering modding the HAP-Z1ES. |
I would agree its probably using SSD since the boot times are extremely fast. I'm also impressed by the Sony interface/software and the use of GraceNotes. Its simple, accurate and stable. The whole system just gets out of the way and lets you enjoy your music. |
that's what happens when you put in an empty formatted drive rather than cloning the drive that came with the unit |
Quote from Computer Audio:
"I don't think Z1ES boots from internal hard drive, it boots from some SSD inside.
Because after I install the new drive(indeed new drive, blank, NTFS formatted), booted properly but Z1ES no longer sees it, and I can't format it. I have to do factory reset from the settings, and after that, it formats the disk, and guess what? All sample music is copied to the new drive! So there is a separate storage on board with OS and sample data. The original 1TB drive is only for music and database." |
Tks for the valuable info.
I'm curious and don't have additional HDD, and the info may help others. |
I will have mods that optionally can include a remote control volume. Looks like this: discrete I-V converter for each phase (no op amps) then a shunt volume control between phases and then zero feedback jfet buffers on all 4 phases (for full balanced or unbalanced use). |
at minimum, there's certainly no degradation of the redbook spec. At it's best it's excellent, especially with regard to the bottom (at least on my system)
There's no front volume control. There are Sony amps(surround I guess)that can be controlled from the software you download from itunes |
I don't know the answer -
Seems to me that you can try that first and if it doesn't work, clone the drive as I did. |
the drive got cloned on a windows 8 machine using "macrium reflect." It's a free download, but any cloning software should do the trick
once you download the "hdd audio remote" app on itunes, you just keep your finger on those fields and make any change you want. The hard drive on the HAP then recognizes the changes |
No outputs variable and controlled from the front knob. You can't connect the Sony to power amp directly, |
Williedog, is there a switch power supply before the two analogue and digital transformers? Tks |
Williedog, how do you like the SQ and DSD remastering of the Z1ES, please?
Are the outputs variable and controlled from the front knob so one can attach a power amp directly to the Sony?
Thanks,
Ivo |
Can the Hap install system software to a new inserted HDD? Tks |
To Willieddog, great to hear that!
What hardware/software utilities used to clone the hard disc?
How do you put the composer's name in the "Artist" section and the performers name in the "Album Artist" section?
Tks |
I took a chance and opened my unit, removed the hard drive from it's cage and cloned it to an ssd.
Glad to report that the operation was a total success!
With regard to classification, I simply put the composer's name in the "Artist" section and the performers name in the "Album Artist" section |
I do appreciate Steve's help and knowledge displayed in his post and the threads, that is a service and we should be thankful, but the continuing promotion of his products in the posts is not appropriate I feel. People get all up in arms when other dealers or manufacturers start promoting in other forums. Fair?
Just to separate this, I do have very high regard for Steve and his business and the advice he offers the audiogoners. He builds business this way for his company and his reputation which is and great.
I'm out, |
Vendor participation in forums strikes me as a topic for discussion in a different thread. Why not start one? |
Steve,
You do have your point there but maybe Mr Bill is just concerned that if you get to do what you are doing, what would happen to this forum if a lot of other dealers or manufacturers start doing the same thing?
For me, I do learn a lot from your informative posts and technical knowledge. I just hope others don't start doing the same thing without much technical knowledge but just plain marketing.
What do the others think? |
Mr Bill - because I have helped a LOT of people find solutions and audio nirvana. Just read all of the threads. My products are top-tier and they don't cost an arm and a leg because I don't advertise, I don't sell through dealers and I don't have a marketing staff. I'm just one passionate audiophile.
I even recommend other companies products. Find another manufacturer that does that. Good luck.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Why does Steve get to run free ads (his posts) for his products in these discussion posts all the time? |
"Agree to disagree" ... Let's move on :-) |
Sbayne,
We don't want to start a debate, remember? Please just keep your arrogant dismissal of digital sound quality out of these threads. You're just making yourself sound like a blowhard. The time when vinyl blew digital out of the water is past and discussion of the sound quality of digital gear is entirely legitimate and needs no qualifiers regarding turntable sound.
You can post all you want about the glories of turntables on the Analog forum. |
Steve - No digital output, but fortunately it sounds very good as is and since its an all-in-one solution its very convenient. Not up to the standards of your equipment but in the past I've used a linear power supply with a Squeezebox Touch/Monarchy Audio DIP/Metrum Octave DAC with good results. |
If the HAP does not challenge your vinyl, you might try reclocking the S/PDIF output of the HAP with a Synchro-Mesh reclocker ($599). It is likely the jitter of the output that is the problem:
http://www.empiricalaudio.com/products/synchro-mesh
Powered by the Dynamo linear supply and using the optional BNC-BNC coax cable it provides a truly world-class digital signal. Many customers use it with Sonos, Squeezebox, computers, Wadia docking stations, Apple TV and many servers. 30-day money-back , less shipping.
reviews:
http://www.empiricalaudio.com/news-and-reviews/synchro-mesh
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Tomcy6 - If I'm so arrogant please explain what turntables have you owned. Lets start there if you want. |
Sbayne,
If you didn't mean to start a debate why did you come to the Digital forum to a thread that has nothing to do with turntables or digital vs vinyl and give your opinion that a $2,000 turntable setup will "blow the the HAP-Z1ES out of the water when it comes to "sound quality." Then you accuse me of trying to start a debate.
The arrogance of SOME of you turntable people is quite amusing. |
