Speaker positioning: why do audiophiles neglect this so much?

Thanks it feel better to be understood than being alone with common place fact and acoustic science...

Pointing to this truth dont negate the scaling differences between gear design...

i only claim that we must learn acoustic BEFORE throwing money on not so useful upgrade...

In my experience acoustic treatment and mechanical acoustic control exceed  most upgrade of any piece of gear by a great margin most of the times and may cost nothing in a dedicated room......

@mahgister said:

acoustic matter more than a piece of brand name gear at the end..

I tend to agree with this in principle, though I acknowledge there are gains to be had with well designed premium equipment.

I'd rather have low cost equipment properly setup in an acoustically sorted room than the most expensive gear thoughtlessly setup in problematic and untreated room. 

I've read descriptions of gear I'm familiar with that are quite laughable because people are describing the problems of the setup or listening environment.

@mahgister said:

Thanks it feel better to be understood than being alone with common place fact and acoustic science...

Well, don't get too excited. I'm on board with traditional absorption/diffusion treatments, bass traps etc. Not even sure what I'm looking at with your room treatment experiments - but who knows, you may be onto something :-)

What I agree with is the principle that the thoughtful application room treatment can have a profound positive effect on sound quality - and is potentially far more cost effective than endless merry-go-round equipment changes. Of course 'room treatment' doesn't have to mean commercial products, decor and furnishing changes will have an effect - not to mention DIY treatments. However the nice thing about commercial products is that that properly engineered ones are pretty predictable and consistent in effect and this can be helpful in achieving good results - experimenting, adding/subtracting etc. 

Is there anyplace online where basic guides mentioned throughout this thread on speaker placement, room acoustics, and related subjects are delineated? I read up on this when I first got my new system and meant to get a book or two, but never got around to it. If there was a good guide online somewhere to be followed, or maybe even a Youtube video, it would be interesting to revisit this subject.

Especially something with information on how to optimize performance within the limits of a furnished, existing listening space. It would also be interesting to figure out how much more performance could be wrung out of your current set-up or how far from optimal it’s currently operating at.

When purchasing my system I wondered about how much getting a pre or integrated amp with room acoustic software like the Lyngdorf would compensate for room deficiencies and improve the listening experience.

Good thread.

Mike

 

@mahgister said:

I am not a gear fetichist but a student of experimental acoustic IN MY ROOM ....

My wife puts up with acoustic panels on walls and I have autonomy in speaker and listening position - but don’t think I’d get away with the experimental room tuning you’ve got going on:

https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8221

There are lot of crystals, beads, pyramids, copper foil wrapped gizmos, and bottle resonators in that room. Even beads against cables and copper discs on power connectors.

It conveys a sense of the arcane.

I do not think I would run the scheme by the Haus boss.

The speaker-room interface is the most important aspect in getting good sound from one's audio system. It is really the first thing that needs to be attended to when setting up an audio system. 

Here are some links to the best places to start on this:

1. The Wilson Audio Setup Procedure (W.A.S.P.) - YouTube

This video from the late David A. Wilson gives some good background information in the first 5 minutes of the 20 minute video. The actual procedure is not something one can do on one's own, so forget that.

2. Sumiko master set-up process - AudioAficionado.org

The Sumiko/Master Set procedure is an outgrowth from the research by Sterling Trayle when he owned Sumiko Importers in Berkley California. This is pretty DIY friendly that anyone can do by following the steps in Post #2 in the thread. The most difficult part may be obtaining the setup disc/files. But the setup song does work really well for doing this. Better than anything else.

3. Master Set & Rational Speaker Placement How To For GREAT SOUNDSTAGE - YouTube

This is a really long video of one person's experience in setting up his speakers. It is quite helpful.

4. And then there is full on DSP, such as DEQX.