Speaker shootout update; aggressive treble eliminating some (fairly?)


I've been trying out speakers in a complicated shoot out, both bookshelves and towers — all in my home with my gear. I'm looking for speakers obtainable up to about $4k but could go up (or down) a bit if the right thing came along.

Basic facts: All speakers were run in at least 100 hours. Room is 27 x 14 x 6.5 ceilings. Powering with all QS tubes, 60w, NOS, tube R2R dac, and decent cables. No terrible reflection points; room not overly live or dampened. REL R 328 sub available but I did most listening without it.

Recent auditions, type:

Klipsch RP 600-M (budget singleton of the group)
Fritz Rev Carbon 7 mk II (bookshelf, 2 way, soft dome)
Focal 936 (tower, 3 way, inverted metal)
Martin Logan Motion 60s XTi (tower, 3 way, AMT)

Coming soon:

Salk SS 6M (bookshelf, 2 way, beryllium)
Dynaudio Evoke 30's (tower, 3 way, soft dome)

Let me speak just to the problems, rather than what was good about the speakers. So far, I've found the Klipsch, Focal, and especially the Martin Logans were all too bright — forward, aggressive, "turn it down" treble.

The ML's were the most impossible to tame and hardest to listen to on more tracks. (I did a lot of hanging of towels and other dampeners and other soft things to try to see if I could bring them to heel. I varied the recordings used. Changed cables/wires. No luck.)

The Focals were occasionally too bright; their bigger problem was a bit too much energy in my small listening space. They were better when I plugged their ports with socks.

I'm looking forward to how the next two speakers sound. The Dynaudio towers, I notice, are 10 inches shorter and half the weight of the other towers; not sure what that might mean, but it could just be right size for my space. I'm looking forward to seeing if the Salks bring more detail to the treble without also being too rolled off or harsh.

Hearing is very personal for physiological and taste reasons. However, if anyone has any thoughts about why I might be experiencing some of the phenomena I am (harsh treble, especially) based on my room or gear, etc., that might help me understand factors I'm not fully appreciating. Thanks.


128x128hilde45
Some 244 or 242 panels above your speakers will help a little bit.  
Your issue is that you are sensitive to overly bright speakers.  If you go dyns, try to get something with the esotar tweeter, not the esotec.  I’m not sure that you have enough power to make the dyns sing though.

The Carbon 7’s you’ve been listening to have a nice Scan Speak air circ soft dome tweeter.  It will probably be on par with just about any other soft domes out there.

The BE tweeter is going to offer up lots more detail without being harsh or overly bright.  I’m very similar in that I can not stand hard domes but at the same time I love Beryllium.

I would even go so far as to say that if you do end up not liking the salks, which I highly doubt, the Fritz Carrera BE’s may be your ticket.  They will play very nicely with your tubes and they have an awesome, natural organic sound with great air and detail up top.

Something to take into consideration, and something that others here are more knowledgeable about than I, when an impedance curve drops dowm from 8 ohms to 4 ohms, if your amp doesn’t double down in power (100 watts at 8 ohms, 200 watts at 4 ohms), it will make the speaker sound bright.

Honestly, the Fritz Carreras are probably the best speakers for your tastes.  If you aren’t smitten with the Salks, have Fritz send you a pair of Carreras.

Lastly, you really should strap on some headphones and google frequency sweeps.  Check your hearing to see whats going on.  Doing that was a real eye, er, ear opener for me.  The sweep should stay the same volume and centered throughout the range.  For me, I have hearing loss in my right ear through a certain range but I am also highly sensitive to 2khz, 6khz and 10khz with no hearing above 15khz.

I remember when we first started talking months ago that I had recommended that you check out Monitor Audio Golds with the ribbon tweeters.  I think that might be something else you look at.  They are very detailed while being laid back as well.  They are beautiful and built extremely well too.  Theres some gold gx 200’s in parker for sale on C-list.  Maybe you can arrange an audition.

I really think though that they soft domes aren’t going to get you the detail that you are after.  You will need to go Beryllium, amt, ribbon or planar.  The nice thing about ribbon and planar is that the limited vertical dispersion will actually be beneficial for you with your lower ceilings.  

@b_limo 
It's not at all clear that I'm sensitive to overly-bright speakers.
For one, if they're "overly bright" then *anyone* would be sensitive. So, it's not uniquely me. (And others hearing these in my room have also flinched at how bright they were.)
Second, the room has 6.5 foot ceilings. As many have deduced, this indicates that it may not be that the speakers are overly bright. It's the room is causing the issue.
All that said, a soft-dome may be the right thing for anyone who had my room.
Doing some hearing tests would be good. It very well could be me, but doing it outside of the strange acoustics of my room would help.

You wrote:
I really think though that they soft domes aren’t going to get you the detail that you are after. You will need to go Beryllium, amt, ribbon or planar. The nice thing about ribbon and planar is that the limited vertical dispersion will actually be beneficial for you with your lower ceilings.

My suspicion is really that *any* tower is probably overloading the room. I bet I could get any speaker and as long as it's right sized (and I'm sitting at the proper, lower, height) it could work.

In other words, I've put too large speakers, too high up in a room with low ceilings. I've created an acoustic challenge that makes it seem to be about the material the tweeter are made of — but that is just a small part of the equation. That is what a bunch of the really smart comments on this thread add up to, as I synthesize them.
HILDE45 the blanket will not work one cloud above each speaker thats why jbl makes some monitor that can be put on there side look at the jbl lsr-32or 6332 jbl 4412 takes the tweeter a way from the ceiling they can be put h or v 
@ditusa I'll try to parse what you're saying about why a blanket won't work. Not quite sure what you're saying.
Being sensitive to bright speakers isn’t a bad thing.  Many people like bright speakers because at first, and for shorter listening sessions they have more sizzle.  I think many manufacturers voice their speakers this way because in a short listening session at a brick and morter store, when a/b’ing them they’ll win out.

its like looking at tv’s.  If one has really vivid colors you may like it as opposed to another that is a bit duller but that vividness / brightness wears thin after an hour or so.

Speakers that are darker sounding or more laid back have a more lasting quality in my opinion.  Speakers that don’t grab your attention are usually the ones that you can listen to for hours and the good ones will lure you in.

I also think that it costs a lot of money / research to produce a speaker that is laid back but that still offers detail, thats why many manufacturers just crank up the highs and lows in order to sell speakers in b&m stores where quick a/b comparisons will be made.

I agree, and stated twice now, that 2 244 or 242 panels above your speakers will help but the speakers are the main culprit.  The rest of your system is either neutral or warm, as stated by another member earlier. 
This may all be solved once you get your Salks.  They should be the ticket!