FWIW, with panel speakers and electrostats, you need a fair amount of space behind them to get the best imaging available. Too close to the rear wall and you will be combining the first reflections with the primary signals which will blur sharp images and may seem bright as well. I set up Quad's about 4.5' in my 13.5x19x9 room and still had to use diffusion materiel behind them.
I've never brought Maggies home for a listen but from what I've read they like power and sound best at higher volume. They are excellent speakers if set up right in the right room but I suspect they might not be a solution for your problem. :-( |
An area rug about 4x6 covers the floor. ther is a sliding glasss door behind me covered by floor to ceiling curtain.overall the room is very lively. |
Can you audition the maggie's or not; I would keep a eye on the distance from the back wall with maggie's and possibily think of slight diffusion if you were to go with the maggies; I have soundlab m2's and have them 3 feet off the back wall; not until I played with room treatment as suggested by several persons on this forum especially rives
did I really see what these speakers were capable of.
I don't have any experience with power for the maggies but I am sure several people will respond to that open question. |
Panu21,
Curious on how much of your tile floor is covered by an area rug, and whether or not you have any padding under the rug? Also, what other furniture (couches, chairs, ect) and window treatments do you have in the room? Basically is the room sound hard or soft? Softening the room will allow you to play your music louder, but in general, small rooms and loud music don't really work very well, as you'll going to get overload issues. Something you might want to do is shoot Rick Craig of Selah an e-mail and explain your situation, perhaps there are some minor tweaks (and I'm thinking along the lines that maybe a resistor between the crossover and (+) terminal of the woofer might tone down it's output to a more acceptable level for your room) that you (or him) could do to your speakers that might help solve some of your problems. |
would love to try maggie mg12's or mmg's.
Do they work at all well with tubes? once again my room is small and am using the prima luna dialogue. speakers would be placed as stated above |
I have a room that is on the small side (13x15) and found the same thing -- at louder levels the room really got overloaded. But I got a RealTraps kit and the situation improved dramatically. I can play music as loud as I want now without problems. I still have some room issues -- bass seems to be emphasized more as I move my listening seat back within 2 feet of the wall. Not cheap, but the sound treatment was a lot cheaper than building another room. |
"Loud levels" can be simply overdriving the room. Consider that the initial signals from the speakers are continually bouncing off walls, ceilings, etc, without sufficient opportunity to decay. This will destroy good 'imaging'.
You can help this some by deadening the room BUT then when you play music at normal levels it might sound a bit dead and uninvolving because you may have overdamped your room.
You've got good speakers - I doubt that they are a problem but it might be informative (to you) to have a SPL meter and test record and see exactly what your frequency response is. Knowing that might lead you to a solution, or not.
But, IMHO, if you want 'loud' and imaging you need a much larger room with better dimensions and very selective set up, including acoustic treatment of problem areas.
FWIW. |
hte speaker i am currently using is a floorstander about 40 inches tall made by selah audio consisting of a ribbon tweater 5 1/2 inch midrange and 7 inch acutron woofer. speaker is non ported. i love the speakers and at moderate levels it sounds great but at loud levels the sound stage falls apart and things become a bit of a mess. i am on a tile floor withan area rug and this does not seem an ideal situation. the speakers are not under any strain so its not that they cant handle the volume level. which leads me to believe they are either too big and not being given enough space or my room needs to be toned down a bit. |
You mentioned resolution and imaging. Other variables being constant, a small speaker will image better than a larger one for a variety of reasons based in physics. One reason, for example, is that the smaller speaker will have its drivers closer together. This will give better coherence as the sound radiates from a point that more closely resembles a single point. As a result, the monitor is a little more forgiving in placement than a larger speaker on this point alone. It's small size makes it even more easy to place. Your big speaker may image fine too; however, it may be better if it's moved a bit and you may not have the room for it. Another factor is the potential bass overloading of the room as the posters above have mentioned. If bass isn't controlled, then it will mask other frequencies and you will lose the resolution that you like.
So is your speaker too big? It may or may not be. If the bass is controlled, and if the speaker can be placed properly for imaging, then it's not too big. Otherwise it is toon big. But even despite that, you would get better imaging from a good monitor, but you give up lower octave bass as a trade-off. If so, then add a sub. |
Quatros will work with most rooms, thanks to its eq which will help you overcome bass problems. It helped me. |
It depends on how much importance you place on the presence of deep bass info vs the insertion of an add-on parametric equalizer.
Personally, I would opt for a 'fuller' range floorstanding speaker and lopping the tops off low frequency nodes caused by room dimensions (or necessary set up compromises) than relying on minimizing room problems with small speakers or room treatments for a couple of reasons.
1) Some of the room/bass problems can be well above 60hz, well within the effective response of many 'monitors' and can really muddy up bass response.
2) It is very difficult to treat a room to eliminate or minimize deep bass problems related to room size. Resist buying into all of the hype hear about band aid products. DO some research into acoustics for your self.
FWIW even if you can't set up the speakers that you decide to buy for your room, try to find some of similar size and frequency response and listen for yourself to see if they create any problems (for you, not just in theory).
FWIW. |
Two considerations:
Large speakers are usually designed that way to accommodate larger woofers. This may overdrive a smaller room. Also, remember that nearly all speaker cabinets vibrate to some degree, thus they add to the soundfield. The larger the cabinet, the more potential for this.
Second, larger speakers may have drivers spaced further apart and require a more distant listening position to allow them to integrate. Also, in producing more bass, they may need placement further away from the front and side walls, thus requiring a larger room. |
I had a pair of Gallo Ref 3.1's in my room, which is similar in size to yours. I could not get rid of boomy bass caused by standing waves. I sold them and bought a pair of Harbeth Compact 7ES-3's. These speakers integrate into my small room much easier than the Gallo's. YMMV... |
In a room that size, you can get away with -3dB at 40Hz pretty easily - especially with some furniture and doorways in the room. There are many floorstanding options with this level of bass output. Your room is close to mine (14x13) and my speakers are 38Hz at -3dB but I have some bass traps in the corners and speaker placement was fairly critical. So anything with a little less bass than that should be fine for your situation.
Most monitors won't have this kind of extension so if you can live with less bass, then they are a fine alternative. I personally feel that solid bass extension is required for high fidelity, but to each his own.
Arthur |
Panu21,
You should definitely work on acoustic treatments (broadband traps) for the bass and consider a Parc or Room EQ Wizard. Boomy room modes can really clutter up detail in the bass. A small monitor might indeed be better provided it is a sealed box and rolls off around 60 Hz...in some cases "less is more" as your ears can figure out the reduced bass frequencies from the higher harmonics anyway...whereas bass boom can disguise or hide detail. |
You could probably get away with a small floor standing speaker but it would be easier to get really good sound with a monitor where you don't end up fighting with the bass. |
