Another song. McShann playing Ellington’s Blue Feeling.
Trumpet in the room. Plucked bass and drumkit syncopation I’ve never heard before in such detail. Whole system seems free of sluggishness. A veil removed.
Aldous Harding - Party. Nothing wrong with bass here. Overhang gone. Clean.
Another revelation. The bass isn't pushed back. It IS back. The drumkit is at the back of the soundstage. It's never been so obvious before. |
@totem395
From Doug Audio. The maximum is around 45kg / 99lb. We recommend <35kg / 77lb.
You'll have to interpolate and test for 5 and your situation. |
Indra, looking forward to your results.
I have tried the Nobsound under my ply 401 with the same immediately discernible results. It's as if I put on 3D glasses! |
@simao Good to hear. Try 3 footers if using 4.
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Different is easy. Better? Not so much.
@neonknight Agreed. However, we're long enough in the game to know when something is an improvement and to also call out any negative considerations when they arise. |
@indranilsen Hopefully they'll sound better tomorrow. Thing is, they are a lot more expensive compared to the Nobsound at $35. How do they compare to them? |
On damping and cost - If you are using Nobsound springs and you flick the individual springs with your fingernail and they ring, wrap one turn of PTFE tape around the full circle. Tight enough to damp but loose enough not to deform. It may not be as good as Townshend (which I've not tested) but it will be $000 less expensive.
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Chuck, I'll add a photo later.
Under the table. It moves in all planes. No detectable torque movement. Tap test makes stylus skip. Slight movement when changing records. Settles fast.
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@indranilsen Thank you. It's sounding so good now that I'm noy going to change it! However, I'm going to try them under another the platform of turntable when I get more Nobsound sets. |
Traffic though the tunnel created very low frequency rumble exciting the panels cracking them.
The failure was in the epoxy holding the panels. They didn't crack due to rumble. |
Correct, in this type of situation it is difficult to hand Q the record. This is one resaon the SOTA tables are so nice.
@mijostyn The springs have settled and my hand has become gentler after my initial comment on bounce. I can cue fine now! |
@mwinkc Try them and report back. I noted one respondent said they heard no difference with the springs under the turntable in their modest system. I wonder is it only noticeable on more resolving systems? I've two more sets coming tomorrow which will allow me to test them under my monoblocks and second turntable. It's going to be a long weekend. |
@millercarbon Good. I think you should lose the granite. I tried granite under table, under maple and table, above maple, and every time it sounded bad. Removing it was a relief.
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...have you shored up, or propped up under your floor where the springs are yet?
A room on a suspended floor versus a concrete floor can only throw up so many issues around vibration and resonance, I can't imagine how I'd go about trying to fix all of them! Starting from a concrete room allows me get past all of that. Consequently, my system is very responsive to small changes and tweaks. |
Actually all concrete does is alter, not eliminate, vibration. First up, my concrete is a fully sunken basement. Dead as a mountain. It’s not a suspended concrete/rebar floor where I can imagine some vibrations. However, there is NO comparison with my basement and a suspended wooden floor and more importantly, wood/sheetrock walls. |
@millercarbon I tried lots of combinations under the phono including naked single springs. I even added brass weights inside the amp.
I'll try adding them under the suport board as @slaw suggested.
Of course, it's not to suggest I couldn't start re-tuning all the other springs but that's the path to madness!
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You can throw those Nobsound springs away. Bad design Bad design for subs? They work great on my very heavy turntable. The thread is about springs under tuntables. Not subs! So in that context, the Nobsound springs work well. |
I'm guessing you're hearing more air around the instruments? Those likely are resonances we seek to eliminate.
First thing I thought of. I know where you are coming from. But the sound quality is improved at low volume too. My rig is pretty solid and heavy in the right parts. Environment is concrete. Instruments are precisely focused and tiny details are more apparent without glare or blur. I think your guess may be incorrect. Thanks. |
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@millercarbon What is the DIY Spring Thing? Added a photo.
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Chuck, added bunch of springs under the phono. Info overload!!
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Forgetting isolation from footfalls for the moment and concentrating on SQ and detail retrieval.
WHAT is going on?!
After a very short listen yesterday, I've given this an hour or so and played a few favs. Zappa, Watermelon and Green Rosetta. Cohen, LYM, CH and FBR. Fairport C. My Girl, Wooden Wand DS.
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@bdp24 I've always found you can hear rubber and soggy damping. I've always been a cones and rigidity man. These springs are very interesting.
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@mijostyn It is bouncy - I have to use the arm lift. But it settles in about 1.5 seconds. The plinth/401 is heavy. I can't use the same type of spring as the weight distribution is not equal.
I am only going by "does it sound better or worse?" |
Thanks for the replies. I did some more critical listening. Some notes below. - Lots more detail - I can hear more of the acoustic, inner detail, deeper stage.
- Tiny details more obvious - like listening to records all over again
- Speakers are totally GONE
- Cleaner but lighter bass - reduced bass?
- Volume needs to be set higher - not as loud - this is weird.
- Brighter - maybe a little too bright - not unpleasant - makes the 401 idler sound more like a suspended - I also have an LP12.
More later when I can get away from desk. |
@millercarbon Can't wait to hear what you think.
Percussion is spectacular. Julie London on mono from 1966 can't be mono!!
One small downside. Poor recordings are laid out in their inadequacies.
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This is insane. Sound is getting better as they bed in OR as I acclimate to the new presentation. It's the delicacy thats amazing. Like going from an okay MM to a superb MC. It's also showing me that I was wrong about the limits of the Garrard/Decca as being a touch shy and rough and ready in the upper range. Nope. This is see-through detail. Best part is that the music isn't sharp and seering - it's warm and beautiful and very detailed.
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No idea, Indra. Concrete floors and walls in basement. But I am literally hearing stuff I didn't know was there.
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My point was that if you put the box on springs or rubbery mounts, then you defeat
I agree that the speaker has to be fixed. The springs isolate the vibrations from the speaker from exciting the floor - hence the cleaner sound - possibly at the expense of driver fixity. The best sound compromise in this set-up is that the speakers weigh enough to compress the springs such there is little discernible movement AND isolation from the floor is achieved. |
Uberwaltz, I also noticed reduced bass and somewhat thinner sound. The weird thing was that the sound improved the next day with the tonal balance evened out. If you try the springs under your table, give it a few days to judge. |
Noromance 401 is pretty similar ( heavier as he has an aftermarket heavy platter @uberwaltz My PAC platter is only a few pounds over standard. The slate plinth however is very heavy with the weight distributed unevenly. |
Playing the wonderfully recorded 1980 Amtrak Blues - Alberta Hunter.
3D. Can't believe these original ESL57s can sound this astonishing. Previously recessed cymbal work is crystalline.
Jan Mc Shann - 1979 Big Apple Bash. Piano is eerie in its realism. Attack and rise time much improved.
I do think that bass lines are pushed back a little more than I'd like. I'll try increasing VTF from 1.65 to 1.8 and see if it brings it back up. |
3 spring units under the table on the slate feet. I need the height due to the extra large SPH bearing.
1 at the back - 40% in from right - with 7 springs.
2 at the front. Left with 6 springs. Right with 3 springs.
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@indranilsen The FOS heavy duty only support 3-6kg per foot. My turntable is at least 40kg. |
@mijostyn Thanks to @Indranilsen, I was looking at their Ref 1 as a possible skeletal plinth for a 401. Expensive experiment though.
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@mitch2 Agreed. As the compression needs of the Nobs are too much for my phono preamps, I used leftover Nobs springs directly to good effect.
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Adding 6 Nob loose springs under the six tube phono amp brought improved clarity, musicality, vocal diction, speed and dimensional perception of instruments in the soundstage. BUT it reduced bass weight and enhanced upper mids to the point of coloration. I replaced the loose springs with 4 aluminum cones which brought things back. Bass returned but the improvements noted above faded. (The turntable is on springs.) Disappointed to lose the amazing clarity but frequency balance better. So it appears the phono prefers stability.
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@mads I was also looking at trying the custom made feet from these guys, Stick with springs. Sorbothane has a bad rap for sound quality! |
@uberwaltz Try 3 Nobsound springs under the 401. 2 at front -the way I have them. Then 2 at back. Interesting upset in your result. Mine is the opposite with the mids projecting free of the speakers and the highs sparkling. Frankly, I thought my ESLs were tired in the treble. Until now. Lit up! |
@uberwaltz Not springs -pods.
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@mijostyn Any chance of putting up some photos in Virtual Systems? It's time. |
I would avoid wall mounting in a timber-frame house unless the wall is sitting on the external basement concrete. |
I use the level on the turntable plinth. Left to right, front to back -both sides. If the platter is not level and the table is level, something may be amiss.
Can you reinforce the floor beneath your room? Lally columns will help.
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My turntable and monoblocs are on springs. When I added them to the phono-preamp, I lost bass response. Frequency response tilted up in the mids. No resonant drone or rumble. Replaced with metal cones and all returned to normal. |
My comment from a few weeks back: My turntable and monoblocs are on springs. When I added them to the phono-preamp, I lost bass response. Frequency response tilted up in the mids. No resonant drone or rumble. Replaced with metal cones and all returned to normal. I revisited this. I was using leftover loose springs for the above. I’ve since received another set of Nobsound springs; this time with no pads stuck on. Test 4 footers under the phono amp. 1 spring per footer. Added brass weights to counter the heavy transformers on one side.. Awesome! Cones gone. Danny Thompson bass is in the room. |
Anyone else using Nobsound springs under their turntables, amps and speakers?
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