Still Looking for a DAC - Audio Mirror Tubadour v and ANK Audio 5.1

I have owned an ANK 2.1 Signature for years now, had it upgraded once by them, and love it. The 6.1 would be an amazing piece.

Thanks. Is there a 6.1 version?

@hasmarto 

I know there’s a 5.1, but I don’t remember seeing a 6.1. But maybe hey snuck one by me.😁. Actually, there’s a 5.1 here on Agon.  They’re asking $4000 for it.

All the best.

How is a DAC incompatible?

@falconquest , my Electrocompaniet ecm1up CDP won’t play CDs via Lab12. Experiencing signal dropout all the time, and nobody knows why. Other sources worked just fine.

I owned a Tubadour lll for several years and used it exclusively for CDs. No experience with streaming with it though. Never had any problems whatsoever. I just got the itch to try something new  but I was very happy with it.

I already ordered AMT V. We’ll see.

@hasmarto Ok, then that was a good question then. Weird!

I built a AN 2.1 which was wonderful sounding, but not detail oriented.  Very musical.  

I have the AMT V with about 30 hours of streaming/CD listening.  It is a very revealing DAC.  Not the "tube glow" of the AMT 3 SE ( I upgraded to the V) or the AN, but very musical with great detail and soundstage.  No fatigue at all.   I recently listened to a much more expensive Linn DAC.  Now it was on a 750k system.  Really lovely.  The characteristics of the AMT V ware very similar.  I won't be able too, but I would really love to drop the AMT V into that system rather than my mid-fi system.  The V is definitely a keeper.  I would suggest Vlad to see if you can have a home demo period.

So, folks, got the AMT V past Friday. Great service from Vlad.
Honestly, gotta say I was really disappointed, because it’s so bright that triggers my tinnitus. After 3 days of listening, now it’s more or less listenable. Vlad offered to try AMT IV, but I really don’t know what to do, I’ve never tried other AMT DACs. Plus the signal delay when changing the source is really long and annoying, but I assume many DACs have that. In any case, as of today, it sounds better than Lab12 Ref1, which I had a couple of months back, but the AMT is just much more detailed. Will keep you updated.

Given your system and from what I’ve read of AM DACs I find it very surprising you’d find it bright unless maybe it’s not yet broken in or if there’s an issue with the unit.  I’m really hoping you’re not using Nordost Frey interconnects BTW, but still.  Honestly this doesn’t make much sense to me on the face of it. 

@soix , I’m using Italian AirTech cables, made of solid core OCC wire. They’re very smooth. It sounds now considerably more calm. I still have a week or so to play with it, and I keep my fingers crossed ;) BTW, my digital cable is Nordost Silver Shadow.

@hasmarto 

I was kind of hoping that you'd go with the top-of-the-line ANK, because they're so musical and I wanted to hear your opinion. 

BTW, my digital cable is Nordost Silver Shadow.

I kinda doubt that’s helping your situation at all. Even if you don’t keep the AM I very highly recommend you try this AZ MC2 digital cable as its sound characteristics seem more inline with your personal preferences. If it’s not just turn around and sell it for little/no loss, but I seriously think it’s worth your while to try. And yes, I own one and it’s amazing.  Read the reviews. My bet is you sell the Silver Shadow in a heartbeat and will make the AM sing in full voice.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisaj916-acoustic-zen-mc2-digital-cable-rca-digital

I agree with soix. All digital cables sound very different.

Ok guys, after 4 days of non-stop playing, now it sounds normal. Basically one week of non-stop playing does the trick. I used only my solid state stuff with it to see what the DAC has to offer. So, it sounds good, balanced, not exactly tubes, no comparison with the earlier days. But I have a different problem now - it’s NO better than my Electrocompaniet EMC1-UP CDP, and the point of getting the AMT is fading. With all honesty I can say there’s no difference in sound. 

What do you think? Is it worth it or I should find something better, which as I understand now, would be quite expensive and difficult. I’ve been told before too that it’s gonna be a challenge to beat my CDP.

I’ll go back to I don’t think your digital cable is doing you favors and would give the AZ MC2 I mentioned above a try as it’s a low-risk proposition with potentially high rewards as digital cables matter a lot.  If that doesn’t do it you might wanna look at upping the game to something at an even higher level from the likes of Lampizator, T&A, etc. as your tastes dictate but that will cost $$$ and why I’m recommending just trying a new cable first.  Best of luck in getting this sorted.

@soix , thanks. I’m now using friend’s Kimber D60, which sounds almost the same.

When you mentioned AZ MC2 cables, did you mean RCA or XLR connections? Interestingly enough they’re both 110 Ohm design, should I ask for 75? I didn’t buy it from the link you provided, because I can get a better deal.

When you mentioned AZ MC2 cables, did you mean RCA or XLR connections? Interestingly enough they’re both 110 Ohm design, should I ask for 75? I didn’t buy it from the link you provided, because I can get a better deal.

That’s a very good and insightful question and glad you asked. Apparently it’s a 110 Ohm cable that they terminate with RCAs. I read up on that and saw mixed opinions as to whether it makes a material difference or not. I honestly didn’t know that when I bought a used RCA version and may have given me pause too if I did, but I’m extremely happy with the my cable and it ain’t going nowhere anytime soon. If there’s a compromise I don’t hear it, but if you can use/get the AES/EBU version I guess it could only get better if anything. Here’s one I’m sure you’ve seen but just in case…

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650037874-acoustic-zen-mc2-reference-digital-aesebu-xlr-balanced-cable/

I’ll cut to the chase — this was the single biggest improvement I’ve gotten from any cable ever, and by a good margin, and I don’t say this lightly. If you can get one and try at little/no risk I highly suggest you do so. You’ve probably read the reviews, and they’re pretty spot on in their universal praise and glowing impressions. It’s a somewhat hidden gem IMHO.

Last, I have a Stereovox XV2 that was two generations advanced from the same guy who designed the D60 (Chris Sommovigo). It’s a good cable no doubt, but I actually preferred my budget Apogee Wyde Eye to it and the MC2 is on another planet from that. The XV2 is very detailed but relatively cold and sterile to my ears, so I guess I’m not surprised the D60 sounds similar to your Nordost. By comparison the MC2 injects life, tonal color, and a voluminous soundstage that’s just next level to my ears — no contest. If these seem like things you’re looking for, well, go for it is all I can say. That’s all I got and hope it helps.

@soix , thanks a lot, gotta talk to Vlad to see what he thinks.

Well, folks, I’m keeping this baby. All it needed was a proper break-in time. IMO,10 days of being on (night and day) is enough for the initial impression.

As of now those excessive highs are gone, and even though it doesn’t sound exactly tubey as we probably anticipated, it sounds very musical, great mids and tight bass with both tube and solid state electronics. It definitely has more PRaT than the Lab12 DAC I had a few months ago, and the vocals are more natural, not kinda in-your-face.

All I can say it went through very interesting transformation during these days and I really love the results.

And I still don’t have a new cable, next week I’ll order the Acoustic Zen cable.

Also, Vlad told me to use AES input when listening to CDs.

I have to say if you’re looking for a new DAC, don’t underestimate this device. Honestly it’s very good, and visually appealing, plus there’s an expandable (if needed) return policy, so you have nothing to lose.

Anyway, this is it for now. I know my words mean nothing to many, but it’s an enjoyable piece. Good DAC doesn’t need to have 10 tubes and weigh 50 lbs.

Thanks to everyone for your input.

One more thing - there’s no tube-rolling here. In my case if there’s Chinese 6Z4 rectifier then I’ll replace it with Soviet-made equivalent. The other two tubes don’t have plug’n’play equivalents.

Thanks for the update and really glad things eventually settled in to your liking — that’s gotta be a bit of a relief!  I’d be very interested to hear your impressions of the MC2 once it settles into your system (I’ve found even used cables need some time to adjust).

I’m very glad it’s working out for you and I’m sure it will get better. My Audio Note sounded good out of the box, but much better after about 2 months. Also, with any dacs, but especially tubes, IMO, warm up time makes a difference. For me an hour is minimum, but after 2 it’s even better. I was considering an AM, as Vlad seems to also believe in non-oversampling chips and no traditional filtering as does AN, but as the AM prices rose significantly with the new models, the  price difference wasn’t that much. 

Hey, folks, I guess a little update is in order, I promise I’ll be short :)

The unit went through different stages of transformation, and when it finally settled down I couldn’t believe my ears - the sound was smooth, big and immensely enjoyable. Gone were those irritating frequencies, and it’s not that I got used to them, my tinnitus won’t let me. As of now, I can’t remove it from my system, it sounds so pure I can’t even describe it.

I also tried using it with all-silver cabling, and the result was great, no irritation of any kind, even my Nordost Silver Shadow sounds great.

In short it’s an extremely musical device, and highly recommended.

I sent Vlad WE 417a tubes, and he’s making adapters, I’m very curious about their capabilities.

So, this is all for now. Thanks to everyone for participating in this thread.

Oh, forgot to mention that the size was a big factor for getting it since I have very little space on my rack.

What an unbelievable device, I must say. Now I’m using it with the Western Electric JW 5842 tubes (mil version of 417A). I can’t say they’re much better that the stock ones, but the sound now is different - bigger and more tubey. I also replaced the stock 6z4 rectifier to Soviet-made 6C4P-EV, which is a plug’n’play replacement tube. It’s always fun to try different tubes. So far it’s easily one of my favorite components.

Feel completely happy now. Next step will be replacing the streamer. The BS Node is definitely not in the same league.

As far as I know ANK still employs old DAC chip, 20 bit max

I am a advocate of Comparisons, keeping this to a DAC only, I have had a short period of comparisons between Tubes and Filter Combinations available to be used on a Bespoke Built Valve DAC.

This same DAC has been compared to other DAC's prior to and following the Tube>Filter permutations investigations that can be used.

I like myself have selected non- designer/builder selected Tubes, and have chosen measured and very accurately matched early 60's Tubes.

The Plug In Filter options supplied by the designer / builder, even though looking quite robust a design, do have a substantial impact on the coherence across the Frequency range.

I can have, 1, Lean Sound (for a valve design), 2, Richness of Tone (underpinning the notes vocal with a little weight), 3, Richness of Tone (that much favours the Bass, quite a weighty underpinning). Options 1 or 2 are the most preferred to date by all who have experienced the options.

I do believe, it is not possible to accurately remember sound produced by other devices after a period of separation, even in my case a short period of separation. I do feel confident in saying the recollection of a stimulus made on myself as a result of experiencing an audio device is what is the most memorable. In my case the idea of adding value or taking value away as a result of a stimulus created, is very subjective and isolated to my own perceptions of sound how I am stimulated by being exposed to it.

I have for many many years been arrived at the place, where having a personal experience, or encouraging other to do the same, is always a much much important method to be adopted, than limiting oneself through evaluating using the descriptions offered up by another, this might be the best if kept for considering items to be put on to a shortlist of products to become further investigated.       

@pindac

You're not a man of few words, that's for sure.

Take it to the Mod's to prohibit a Post if they decide the content is 'Prolix' .

I attempt to share experiences had, and nothing else. Which in all cases of my reporting, is a subjective assessment on how I was influenced.

I don't expect anybody to take on my experiences had, that can be replicated and come to the same description as a assessment, even when unanimous is used, as a outcome during a group experience, there will still be differences of opinion on how stimulating/influencing the experience was between individuals.

  .     

Guys, please stay on topic, I already bought whatever I wanted a half a year ago, and don’t need recommendations. If you have something to say about this particular DAC, then go ahead, otherwise as far as I’m concerned this thread is closed. Thank you. 

Ouch...

@pindac, post whatever you wish, it’s just irrelevant to this particular topic, since I’m long done with the DAC search. 

@soix, I ordered the AZ MC2 cable. Should be a good match with my other AZ stuff.

@hasmarto,

The pint is, he, and everyone else was courteous to.you and listened to what you had to say without complaint.

@roxy54, I deeply believe this is not the place to exercise freedom of speech, and having said that, I’m signing off before it gets out of control.

Peace to everyone!