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Toe-in recommendation for stand mount monitors

I've used floor standing electrostatic speakers almost exclusively for over 30 years and am transitioning, I think, to stand mount monitors. I've positioned them to start with in the same location as I had the Martin Logan Ethos speakers and the Odysseys previous to them. The listening area is about 18 X 24 feet with the speakers positioned 12 feet apart and 16 feet from my listening spot. From the standpoint of the often discussed equilateral triangle recommendation this is not ideal but I really have very little latitude.

Regarding toe-in, with the ML's I used their suggestion of the "flashlight method" as a starting point but for "conventional" speakers several articles suggest using directions given by the manufacturer. The speakers that I'll be using, though, are old, having been manufactured in the mid 90's and I have no manual for them.

I don't know if it makes a difference for the purpose of this discussion, but these new speakers are the original Serie Reference MMC 3A's manufactured in France. They're a mid sized speaker with a rating range of 40-20,000Hz which would accommodate most of our listening requirements but I also purchased a used Polk Audio Micropro 4000 sub woofer to use with them.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
128x128broadstone
tgrisham
1,291 posts
 
I would start all over with placement. I only use the Sumiko Master Set method. You set up the speakers to play the room. Once they are properly placed you can set the toe in for the proper imaging. That's trial and error. Good luck.
wim1983's avatar
wim1983
221 posts
 
My experience with toe in, it can help, but do not overdone it, just a little bit, try not too triangle shape, if the speakers is fatigue less, you don't need toe in will wonderful sound, having said that if the speakers sound harsh or too bright, toe in or whatever room treatments won't work effectively, fatigue will come eventually, recently I got to compare a pairs of Wharfedale Denton & Wharfedale Jade 3, end up I love the Denton so much more, relaxing, detailed, musical fatigue less sound that let you enjoy more
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,534 posts
 
I say overdo it! Yes indeed. Have the drivers cross 1-3 feet in front of your head meaning your speakers will have extreme toe in when nearfield listening. Try this as many use it and report stellar results. This works best with two way speakers!

I love it and have tried most every method touted on the net. This is the best in my room with my gear.
goose
710 posts
 
Sometimes it's helpful if you can have someone toe in the speakers as you are listening to them. It will become apparent where a good spot is as for a starter as they are moved around. I haven't tried the radical toe in as discussed above, but have usually settled for toe in that aims at my shoulders and crosses behind me about 4 feet or so.
broadstone's avatar
broadstone OP
310 posts
 
For a very long time I've used the Martin Logan curved panels which are quite dependent on positioning so have possibly become a little over attentive to those requirements. I've had 5 pairs of these over the years and never had any of them in the forward facing mode. On the other hand, when using conventional speakers I don't think I used any but a slight toe-in. With these Serie Reference monitors, that's where I started, with zero toeing.

I'm trying not to become fixated on the equilateral triangle positioning of speakers relative to the listener but there are enough discussions supporting that setup theory that I think it's worth considering as, at least, a starting point. Right now the speakers are positioned 12 feet apart with my listening spot 16 feet from them in a room about 18 feet wide and 25 feet long. I can make some minor adjustments to the furnishings to put the speakers 14 feet apart with the listening position 15 feet from them. With the speakers this far apart I'm thinking that some toe in would be called for and I'll begin experimenting. I'm still impressed with these 20 year old speakers and am sure they'll be in my home permanently.
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