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True or False?

The following is a common sentiment from some who claim to be audiophiles.

If you hear something but can’t measure it, you only think you heard a difference.

 

This notion is also common among people who claim to possess an accomplished understanding of audio, especially when achieving a high level of performance for a minimal investment.

So who’s right? On the one hand we have Objectivists who claim if you can’t measure it, you can’t possibly hear it or if you do, its expectation bias and self delusion. Are these people correct? Do they get as good as a sound, or better for far less money by ignoring cables, power cords, mechanical isolation, basically any accessory that many have found to dramatically improve performance despite a lack measurements? Do those who dismiss expensive digital to analog converters as being no better than rather common digital components with decent measurements get just as high a performance level as those of us with MSB and DCS? Do people who claim it’s all about finding perfect speaker placement, do these people outperform those of us with systems that cost multiples more than what they pay (Who also pay close attention to speaker placement as well as everything else)? Or do those of us who pay attention to cables— digital, analog, and power, what we set our components on top of, how we place our speakers, acoustics, and tweaks, expensive DACs and the like, do we get better sound? Who’s right? And how do we ultimately determine sound quality?

 

 

 

128x128ted_denney
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,366 posts
 

Hearing like all our senses are highly variable functions. No absolutes. No two ears exactly the same. Luckily only your ears matter and thank god there are measurements and other objective criteria to help steer all our ships towards something actually of high quality and perhaps even good value. Isn’t that what we are paying for?

 

What others think sounds good may be of value. Or not. That only follows under the assertion that it’s only your ears that actually matter to you.

 

So when people come out and throw objective facts into doubt it turns me off.   I detect an agenda and it is likely of little value to me. 

dvddesigner
78 posts
 

In the case of the "objectivists" I find they are not worth listening to.

  1. They're agenda seems to be founded on starting an argument
  2. Usually with a tone of superiority and talking down to others
  3. They love "flame" wars
  4. Will justify their position with a self fulling prophecy 

The whole reason each of us has a given system is we enjoy it and believe it sounds good to us. That is all the matters. We want to enjoy the music we love on a system that meets sounds good to us.

The premise that measurements are the only thing that can matter is silliness - especially since the music creation process is a creative endeavor. Why do "objectivists" put out the notion "Wow, this sounds terrible but it measures perfectly.  I am right and everyone else is wrong. I will be happy to be unhappy and pissed off but at least I am right."

Not even sure why objectivists want to engage except for some deep seated emotional issue to prove something to others and covert them from the misguided subjectivist path to the light of the objectivist religion. 

russ69's avatar
russ69
3,523 posts
 

I do not understand why one would spend $x on audio gear and not, at the very least, spend 2-3 days with REW, listen and measure as to extract everything out of your room and system.

Thanks for the well thought out post. I'm not sure I can respond with a reasoned answer. The only thing I can say is I learned a long time ago that you can't make a deficient loudspeaker do what it physically is not capable of doing. So electronic correction has its limits. I also like clean simple systems so adding ANY device into the signal path has a downside. Then finally, I've been doing this a long time and even though I use trial and error, I usually stumble upon a workable solution in the end. I'm not against measurements, I just find their usefulness, in home audio systems, very limited.  

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milpai's avatar
milpai
2,412 posts
 

I have never met an Measurementista that had a high-end system.

+1 on this one. Show me a system that these measurement freaks have that has proper and careful placement. There are a few on this site. But notice how uneven or carelessly placed those systems are. Now if you ask me to show them - I don't recollect one top of my mind. But search for users who side with the measurement freaks and then check their system page. Most measurement freaks think that they can simply buy stuff, put it in a room and be done. Yeah, right.

 

My measurement devices were refined by natural selection over thousands of years and are responsible for the survival of multiple generations.

Exactly. Point is that measurements freaks don't trust their hearing. Hence they seek to validate.

Every ear is different, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion

Glad you feel that way. You are probably a rarity in the measurement freak world. For rest of them, only measurement OR their opinions matters.

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