I heard these in their room at RMAF playing with a pair of BelCanto Ref 1000's. I don't think they were bi-amping at the time I was listening, but they did have some serious tube amps in the room as well for exactly that purpose (sorry, can't recall what they were using). The BelCanto's sounded superb on those speakers. Can't speak to the bi-amping question though. I think they would use the BelCantos on the bottom end when they did biamp (500wpc into 8ohms). Great speakers - that was a standout product to my ears at that show. They also were using a PC-audio front end running through some processing software and an equalizer. Sounded great in spite of all the digital technology;-) |
I was just discussing this with a friend today.We're waiting for his CS2s to come in. We plan to try my 300B on the top end. And use a Audire Otez or a Classe on the woofers. Preamps will be a TVC and a Bel Canto Dac 3.
Honestly I don't see it being a problem driving the tweet/mid with a good tubed amplifier. I plan to drive mine with the 300B on top and a pro amp for the 15 inch drivers.
I should know for sure in the next week or so how it's going to sound. You can go to audiocircle.com. and post this question. There are plenty of owners on the site. |
I will also be doing some a/b comparisons in about 2 weeks. I have a Tom Evans Linear A in my Avantgarde Duo system and I just got a couple more amps to swap in and out of that system as well with the Emerald Physics.
I will be using a tubed amp for the top end and picked up some sub amps for driving the bottom end. I have an Art Audio Carissa, Art Audio PX-25, and a Sophia Electric Baby amplifier with factory upgrades.
I am waiting for my H-Cat preamp to come back from getting upgraded to the newly released model which should be any day and I and a reviewer friend will be setting them up and seeing which sounds best. Feel free to stay in contact with me for more info..... |
I don't get some folks' reasoning on using potentially lesser quality amps on the LF woofs of these speakers. I can understand if those woofs handled only LFs, but unless I'm mistaken, these LF woofs also handle freqs up to 1kHz. That covers the all-important mids which so many of us are after, the most sensual(?) part of the freq spectrum. Wouldn't you want your highest quality amp to cover those freqs? I must be missing something here. |
You guys are going to love them! I've used a PX4 SET,Decware 2watt SET,300B SET,and 2a3 P/P amps and they all drove the speaker just fine. The speakers are an amp microscope. They will make differences in amps the most noticable than you've ever heard. Rockadanny makes a good point and I'm currently trying different bass amps. The differences in bass amps are far less noticable. So, if on a budget the bass can go a while while one puts all the efforts into the top end. This goes for speaker cable,ICs,and power cords on the bass amp as well. It's still a priority but, just not as high a priority as the treble amp and cables. Guys, be sure you break these in before judging them. They break in fast at first and slow to crawl.They're probably 40% broken in the first 25 hrs. They just get more opened and effortless,smooth,and just downright amazing! Mine have 250 hrs. and they're still improving. I could go on and on about these but, I'll sum it up this way. I've heard many,many speakers(horns,panel,arrays single drivers,you name it)these make all of them sound broken! Beware! If you don't like a live music presentation then you will not like these. They sound as much like live music as I've ever heard in a stereo. |
Hello Rockadanny..yes you are unfortunately.You would have to hear the speakers to understand. In fact it would surprise you how this speaker sounds driven by a pro amp on the woofers. The speaker was designed to do just that, give you great sound using good equipment. These drivers after all are pro drivers, designed to play at ridiculous levels for extended periods of time without distorting.
I've heard Clayton is working out a deal to have his own active crossover manufactured.This is where the rubber meets the road. The active crossover is the strength of this speaker. |
Rockadanny,
You make a good point. And I would also like to add that even using high quality amps which are different than the top amp would make for a discontinuous sound. Even more so when those amps are different technologies too. I wasn't aware that the LF driver played so far up, is that true?
Shakey |
Shakey, I hear ya. And believe me I've been there and done that. I was one of those simple,purest approach myself. If my tonearm could have been wired to my speaker terminals and made sweet music then that's how I would have had it. But, this technology has made me a believer. No, dips or discontinuty. The active EQ/crossover takes care of all that. |
Shakeydeal (love the moniker) - I read that the LF woofs do go to 1kHz ... Anyone know otherwise? It may very well be an awesome sounding speaker - I am not refuting that and I have NOT heard them (dealer in Atlanta does not have space to audition them), I am just trying to wrap my pea-sized brain around the amp choices for the LF woofs. I get the impression that any ol' 100wpc ss amp'll do, which is a foreign concept to me. |
Rockadanny..If you're in the ATL. You should hook up with Walter when he comes back from Hawaii and hear those speakers.
He has the space for you to hear them. |
Hey guys. I'm in Atlanta and I heard them at Wally's. I only listened for a short while, but they were very impressive. They are making me re-think my whole system. (I feel the sickness coming on again! lol!) I believe that the amplification must use balanced outputs. Is that the case? That will certainly limit your choice of amps if that is true. |
You can use XLR to RCA adapters to cure that problem. I know what you mean..a friend and I haven't felt quite right after hearing them either. LOL |
I have a pair of CS-2 that I have been playing with for the last several weeks. I am very impressed. I have been given the direction that SS amps work the best with these...I am not sure why that would be the case but I have not had an opportunity to experiment yet. I am using a Wyred 4 sound 4 channel ICE based amp from Cullen in CA....it has 125w modules for the top and 250w for the bottom....it sounds very good.
I agree that the Behringer must be the weakest link and my suspicion is that improving this will have far more impact than the choice of amplification (assuming sensible choices are made here). I am looking into having the Behringer modded by Reference Audio and would be curious if anyone has done this yet and would like to commnet on the results.
I had not heard that Clayton was working on his own X-over so that might be interesting as well
I find the speakers do things like Dynamics and openess better than virtually any speaker I have had (a very long list with most in the $10k-$20k retail range) but that they lack a bit of refinement...this perspective is relative to live music as I use this as my reference...I really think the x-over must be the way to resolve this....Kyle at Reference certainly makes a strong statement that this is his belief and experience.....Fun speakers! I'm very glad I followed my insticts on this one. Can't wait to hear the $8K-$10k version Clayton is working on. |
I'm trying to understand where the Emerald Physics DSP sits in the signal chain. Is it between the preamp and the amp? Is it between the amp and speakers? How does it connect into the system? Thanks. |
The DSP is between the preamp and the amplifier. The amplifiers connect directly to the drivers of the speakers. |
Thanks for the response re where the DSP connects in the signal chain. I have more questions. Does the DSP have both analog and digital inputs? If so, which input do you prefer to use and why? I suppose the DSP analog output is divided into a pair of LF outs and HF outs, correct? It's been my experience that some speakers sound better at higher volumes. How do the speakers sound at low volume? How well can you hear into the recording at low volume? I have heard Zu Audio Definitions, how does he Emerald Physics compare, soundwise? |
Dont see where running tubes into DSP makes sence. Might as well use SS. And the DSP is needed for if not no bass at all, DSP is a way to try and cheat the laws of physics. As with all things computer equiped bet these loudspeakers wont last as long or be worth much in the future. Ever priced a 5 year old top model HT receiver or CD player? Since we all know at what speed digital advances. Sure DSP could be the future of loudspeakers but I feel all would need to be designed as a whole, transducers DSP cabinet etc. Maybe EP did this but when I looked them over I didnt see it. Also design would need to be upgradable like a PC does EP offer this? |
The amps are after the DSP. Listen to them is all I can say. |
either amp will do on Top for they are not drawing much ,
The one Weak link in this sysytem is the barringer Xover
box the parts and internal wiring are Junk .My uncle rewired one with good quality wire ,many new high calibur resistors and well as caps. About $600 to rebuild this unit but it makes a huge difference . |
