Turning lead into gold ?

Dear Lacee: +++++ " Surprisingly, I never heard in past tables and arms how good that Grado was.
It was always an entry level item, a step along the way,to a much better sounding one.
Or so I always thought.

I now have a new found respect for this old cartridge " +++++

well this is nothing short of what I found out several years ago with several humble vintage MM/MI cartridges and was on that time that I started a dedicated thread to share experiences incredible experiences on those humble MM/MI cartridges. Today that thread has over 7K posts related and as you many people now have " a new found respect for those old little gems ", I always say that those are : " the missed link ". Fortunately we found out and now we have a " new " realy fine analog alternative.

+++++ " What impresses me most about the SME combo is not that it will make a two grand cartridge sound good, but that it has made a well worn $300.00 one sound so good. " +++++

IMHO a cartridge is only a half-terminated item and its other half is the tonearm.
Whe a tonearm and cartridge performs as two items this means that tonearm is not helping for the cartridge showed at its best. When both performs as one integrated item then all shines. cartridge performance quality level depends in firt instance with which tonearm is mated: synergy here is the name of the game.

+++++ " I would definetly have to say that upgrading the table and arm is a more profund improvement than upgrading to an expensive cartridge on a cheap table. " ++++

well: " in a cheap tonearm ". That is the same experience by Cousinbilly1:

+++++ " with the top of the line 'tonearm', coupled to their cheapest cartridge "EASILY" outperformed the top of the line cart on the inexpensive tonearm " +++++

I never heard the Talisman V2 but I own the Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood ( non stock cantilever/stylus. ) that under my Agon Virtuoso review outperformed ( in my system ) the Goldfinger LOMC top of the line Clearaudio one and ( if you go and read through the latest pages on the MM long thread. ) one Agoner prefers in his sytem his vintage Technics P100CMK4 over his Lyra new top of the line 9K+ cartridge:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1200430667&openflup&7233&4#7233

and I own some very cheap and humble MM/MIs that outperform almost any big big Kdollars cartridges out there.

One main characteristic where the MM/MIs take advantage over its LOMC " cousins " is that the MM/MI are better tracking cartridges and this not only means lower distortions but more music information that is in the LP grooves that the LOMC can't " read " because instead to always been in the groove are jumping ( microscopic level ) due to its low compliance design.

Anyway, very good experience you had with that Grado and now with your Talisman V2.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

This experience has me wondering how good the Grado Statement Ref would sound.

I have a friend with the SME 30,V arm and listened to the Stradivari and then the Goldfinger cartridges, however not at the same listening session.

The main reason I went for the Talisman V2 gold, was because of the way the top Clearaudios worked in his system.Also, the fact that it was in my price range.

I haven't used a coil since back in the late 1970's,80's -Fidelity Research MK13f, and Dynavector Karat Ruby.
Back then the table was an Oracle Delphi mk3 and an ET2 linear arm.

A bad experience with the Dyna(snagged the ruby on my sweater)led to years of digital only and then when back into vinyl, the Grado Platinum seemed like not too much to loose if I had another accident.

I used the Grado in my Rega P9 but it never performed like it did in the SME.

I should add that a friend now owns my P9 and uses an old MC and I never heard that table sound so good.

Like everything else, it's about combinations that either work together or they don't.

I suppose somewhere there must be a list of tables, arms and cartridges that folks have found to work well with one another, and a list of combinations that don't.

If there isn't, somebody should start one.

How many hours did it take for break in & bass to come alive?

Hi Cousin.....Why would I be displeased with you.? In my experience, all components create a synergy with each other toward or away from Nirvana. Personally, I was glad to be rid of my SME V since it didn't work with the cartridge I had in it at the time....although I've heard that arm sound fine with other cartridges with which it just gets along well. I knew Joe Grado well...he sang at the Met in New York, and know well, that he knew what real music supposed to sound like. I suspect that the Grado here works well with the SME...all to the good. My experience, or should I say my appreciation is for the nuances that a more refined cartridge can contribute to the party. I remember the SME being a bit bloated in the bass, and not as refined and extended in the highs....I remember the Grado I had (I think it was the Sonata low output) was bloated in the bass, and not as refined and extended in the highs. Isn't it interesting that the op liked the Grado/SME.....not to say that the op's idea of real music in real space is flawed... I just think that synergy is everything. High end audio is loaded with unexpected pleasures and trolls.

I've grown more accustomed to the sound of the Clearaudio cartridge.
Just as I had to the Grado in a different turntable set up.

I pretty much changed my whole system , the only constant was the Grado.It never sounded as good on the P9 as it did on the SME 10/V set up.

When I sold the P9 to a friend,I never heard that table sound as good as I guess it is capable of sounding .He was using an upscale MC on it and it was very good.

The Talisman has perhaps broken it, the tonearm wires (Nordost)have not.

Maybe I like bloated bass,and the Talisman will have nothing of that.

Real music in real space.

That's a concept that I find is past it's due date.

Unless I sit in exactly the same spot as Stringreen,my experience of live music in a real space won't be the same as his.
Where is the best seat in the house, the one that has the magic?
I also doubt our ears will be exactly the same, and give or take a few dozen other differences, has made me quite aware that no two real music in real space experiences will ever be the same.

We are dealing with recordings and the way the gear reproduces those recordings, which is an illusion afterall.
Listening to recordings thru our gear is all about our own preconcieved ideas about the way things should sound.
These systems are all flawed and it's a wonder that we even like them at all, seeing as they are so far away from real music in a real space.

Even if the microphone was in the exact same spot as your seat,I know for a fact that after all the electronics, it will not be anywhere near real music in real space that you remembered from that seat.

It's a great myth that we like to believe in that keeps our interest in this hobby, but I gave up on trying to achieve that absolute sound years ago.

I have never once heard reproduced sound come anywhere close to what I experience when I play live music.
And that's from one of the best seats in the house.