Upgrade Opinions, Thorens vs VPI

So, building a better plinth is a waste of time? Modifying and building upon an already existing design is also a waste of time?

 That flies in the face of logic because without such activity progress would never occur. Nothing is perfect and everything can be improved upon.

i have no doubt the a stock Prime is an excellent product but that does not make other products less so and a waste of time.

As I indicated, it is when individual creativity and an excellent outcome converge which creates pride in ownership, not just work. Work with out results is just work. Work with results equals pride!

Please reread my post. At no time did I disparage VPI, but rather, I have praised them. My input was to highlight a road less traveled but just as rewarding. Obviously it is not for you but it is for hundreds others.

I would agree that money spent on a great cartridge and phono pre will give tremendous value and should not be taken lightly.

Raymond,

What I am saying is that if someone has said they have a 3K budget, and some of the potential solutions is to throw money at an old table, in hopes of making it a better table, then who am I to say they can't???

I'm noone.......

But:

If someone is going to throw a lot of money, and a lot of time and effort into a "creative" effort to improve on a design that obviously needs a lot of improving on, and they get to the end and the result is only a fraction as successful overall as going and purchasing a current state of the art high value product that will absolutely KILL!!!! the creative exercise.....

then in my case, I'd buy the new and find creative release somewhere else, because in my 30 year history as an audiofool, the end result is the important thing, that I get the absolute highest level of performance I can possibly achieve and that the sound transports me to a live performance, or brings a live performance to me......

Will a Prime get him there better than a home modified Thorens?

I say it will......and I also say the comparison will not be even close.....

I've owned Thorens, Dual and several VPI tables including Scout, Classic 1, Classic 3, TNT 2nd generation and recently an HR-X.  

I am now going to try the suspended world with a new Oracle Delphi MK VI 2nd Gen and an Oracle SME V arm/Transig Proteus cartridge.......

Which I will immediately start trying to improve upon in my garage.....
LOL

Ray et al.... What I’m saying is that sure...a better turntable, better plinth, better this, that, its all better....but I predict, that putting the very best turntable in the system with these components would not be heard. The Thorens is a very good turntable....The VPI may be better, but the difference in sound on this system is neglegable.

No doubt.....just buying a Prime will beat a 160 series maxed out mod. However, I think the only thing he has left is to replace the tonearm on his, as other mods have been done. 

Might as well, I say. That is only 500 as opposed to 3000. Upgrade the cartridge...phono stage and enjoy. Then see if the table is really the next step....if so, save up for a Prime. 

Or, just buy a Prime now. You can't go wrong with that move

BTW, Matt and Harry just modded the 3d arm. Darn......don't they know how to stay out of the Garage? lol

Harry modded the arm, Michael Fremer introduced it right after his Prime review, then yesterday on Facebook, Mat said that there’s no way they are going to offer the mod, because drilling the 3D arm carries too much risk of damage......general consensus is the sound was about the same.....introduced mostly to negate the criticism of the unipivot being wobbly when cueing a record.....