Using both balanced and single ended outputs at the same time?

Hello @boonaroo ,  I believe that is fine to  do.  it is similar to a RCA output labeled subwoofer out, and is full range.

I’ve done that successfully out of a Sony SACD player with both XLR and RCA, and a DBX Equalizer, just to compare the sound. I never experienced a quality improvement, i.e. never had any noise to eliminate, never heard ’better’, but I did find a slight volume increase using the XLR out.

There are subtle differences of ’true balanced’ outputs as per _____ spec, and ’balanced type’ ... too much detail for me to try and remember, just know that all XLR are not equal.

I like that my XLR connectors are the locking type, not easily dislodged/disturbed, whereas RCA connectors can be inadvertently troublesome.

Splitters, I've used them several times over many years, never had a problem, but always felt it was unauthorized.

+1 @elliottbnewcombjr , I will add that my with my Audionet equipment, they strongly recommend single ended (rca) cables.  My understanding is that this avoids op transformers to convert the balanced cables back to single ended, which can only degrade the sound, no matter how well made.

@fastfreight This is very equipment specific. Most high quality devices which offer balanced outputs just mirror the hot signal with similar components, but perhaps only at the very output stage. It’s a bit of fear mongering to say that balanced outputs are normally inferior. They are not. In some cases however the inputs may make no difference. I know of at least a couple of amps which have XLR inputs and then ground the (-) pin. The XLR is just a convenience.

OTOH, using a transformer based output has the advantage of never causing a ground loop.

No doubt @erik_squires ,  I was surprised to learn Audionet strongly recommended single ended connections.  I too like the lock of the balanced cables.  I do bump my K-S Realization cables loose sometimes, and have to keep and eye on that.  But this was confirmed not only by my dealer but Audionet as well.  I do believe that many seek balanced thinking they are superior though, when often they may not be.

Honestly we don’t need balanced cables in the home very often, but in areas where you have a lot of Ethernet and HDMI cables running around they add some additional noise rejection.

Unless you have a long run, I’d be surprised if anyone ever heard a difference.

I was once at a show in a high rise in NY, with Coda gear and boy could we have used it then.

erik_squires

... we don’t need balanced cables in the home very often, but in areas where you have a lot of Ethernet and HDMI cables running around they add some additional noise rejection ...

There's more to it than just that. If you're using components with truly balanced circuitry, you often get 6 dB greater output when using the balanced XLR connectors. Another way of looking at that gain is that for a given output level, you'll get 6 dB greater S/N when using balanced connections. That's a big deal.

I do this with my Schitt Mjolnir v3 preamp into a CODA #16 in my office and also into a Schitt Aegir v1 amp (headhones). I have also done the same connections using my Benchmark HPA4 preamp.

I have another Schitt Aegir amp (for headphones) sitting in a box and I would like to hook it up to my Livingroom system that has a Holo Audio Serene preamp and Schitt Wotan amp. There is a bit more danger in doing this one since I was told my the USA distributor not to do this because having both amps on at the same time (accidently) would damage the preamp.

In all 3 cases I am am referring to RCA and XLR outputs connected at the same time. I have accidently left both amps on with the Mjolnir v3 and HPA4 preamps (for and those 2 preamps did not get damaged.

@boonaroo , I have done what you described (balanced outs from preamp to amp and RCA outs to subwoofer) with a couple of preamps, and although I am currently not using my subwoofer, when I did it seemed to work fine.

If you’re using components with truly balanced circuitry, you often get 6 dB greater output when using the balanced XLR connectors. Another way of looking at that gain is that for a given output level, you’ll get 6 dB greater S/N when using balanced connections. That’s a big deal.

Gain which you can’t use... and at the levels we are typically talking about, 90 dB signal to noise, sure, I can measure 90 vs. 96, but I can't hear it.

erik_squires

... at the levels we are typically talking about, 90 dB signal to noise, sure, I can measure 90 vs. 96, but I can't hear it.

Some people like the addition of noise in their systems, feeling it adds a sense of "spaciousness." Suit yourself!

I did it successfully with a Classe CP35 and Six...long ago ...

I have a BHK pre with both balanced & RCA out. The BHK instructions state one of the uses for the RCA’s out we’re Subs. The only issue is the balanced out was +6db, as @cleeds said over the RCA out so had to adjust the sub volume up to compensate. 

Well you always have to adjust the sub (s) volume.  This is not a negative nor an issue.

On my Krell Illusion and Krell 300xd they both have Balanced outputs and Rca outputs along with inputs So I use high quality locking xlr connection between units.

@cleeds the noise in the listening room with swamp that difference.

Some visitors to this thread might not understand that there are two types of circuits in stereo audio components: ’single-ended’ and ’balanced’. Single-ended is also known as as SE.

An RCA connector is used on a ’single-ended’ circuit. An RCA connector cannot be used on a ’balanced’ circuit. An XLR connector is only used on a ’balanced’ circuit. BUT, an XLR connector can be used on a ’single-ended’ circuit. It is simply piggy-backed on to the RCA wiring. Several manufacturers provide both RCA & XLR connectors on a ’single-ended’ circuit simply for convenience. (No need to buy new cables.)

A truly-balanced differential circuit is considerably more expensive to implement. A manufacturer will feature this design in their marketing. The benefit of balanced is best realized if all the components in a chain are also balanced. As with everything else in audio, ’single-ended’ vs ’balanced’ is subjective. They each of their advantages & disadvantages.

Having XLR connectors on a component, does not automatically mean that the circuit is balanced. And there’s the option of converting a single-ended circuit to balanced by installing a transformer. This would be for a different discussion.

I run my Eversolo A8 balanced out to my amp and SE to my sub.

@steakster , whether the circuit is truly balanced or the outputs are balanced in name only should not have an effect on OP using one pair connected to his amp and the other pair connected to his sub.

If your subs are powered like mine are, and you have both XLR and SE outputs like my preamp does, then you can run your XLR cables to your amp(s), and your SE cables to your subs. Fiddle with the level on your subs to how you like to hear the lowest bass and you're done. Also fiddle around with the positions of your subs and speakers to play the room the best.

Ok gonna play devils advocate just to point out the other option no one recommended...Run single ended to main speaker amps and balanced to the subs. Reason: the run to the main amps is probably much shorter due to the amps being closer to the preamps...if your amp(s) are basic stereo amps then they are probably close to the preamp with a long(ish) speaker cable run. If you have monoblocks for the main amplifiers and position them at the speakers, that is a different situation and using the balanced outputs to the mains probably makes sense. Obviously whichever set of outputs is leftover get relegated to subwoofer duty. I'll never do monoblocks due to the extra expense and the extra space gobbled up by extra boxes. Stereo amps are my preferred poison. That said, they will be as close to the preamp as possible and will have very short unbalanced cable runs to them. The subs may have to end up ANYWHERE in the room to sound good and so I reserve the balanced connection for them. Your mileage may vary but that is my approach and it works very well indeed.

My current system is a bare bones system with nothing but unbalanced outputs and I am not disappointed much because the noise is completely inaudible. I live in a noisy apartment building and could probably tolerate a noise level in the amp that many people because of their living situation find completely intolerable. What I have works fine where I am now. If I indeed ever get to move back to my home, the current system will get relegated to bedroom use or something equally undemanding. I cannot wait to be in my own home again.