I've tried three different brands and they all had their own sonic signature and each brand sounded better in one direction over the other. Just curious if you were able to detect a sonic difference between brands an/or changing their direction via a blind or double blind test. "That would be something" |
This debate gets tiring after a while.
@genez Try hearing a sonic benefit in a blind test. That'll end the debate. |
God gave you one mouth and two ears for a reason. - Judge Judy We're done - Judge Judy |
The owner of Harbeth Speakers has an interesting challenge that he has offered for years. Certain folks here on Agon get all bent-out-of-shape at the mere thought of a "challenge". |
I am not a fuse adopter, with digital front end.
By the way, I haven’t read anything herein (could have missed it though) about cases where fuses are not readily accessible and therefore require one to open a factory sealed component and risk voiding the warranty as a result of doing so. Of course if you’re a do-it-yourself person that may be a moot point.
But voiding or potentially voiding a manufacturers warranty is a hell of a price to pay for being stylish. |
@geoffkait
I understand. I just figured that because you are able to hear a "significant" improvement, the type of test wouldn't even matter. Never mind. |
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geoffkait - It goes without saying the fuse, even if it’s a stock fuse, will sound significantly better in one direction than the other. How about you contact me privately, so we can begin communication regarding your ability to hear a significant improvement when a stock fuse is oriented in the opposite direction. |
....but the ones I've seen that say there's a difference, actually heard the difference, whereas the ones that say there are no differences, say it without benefit of hearing it for themselves... Of course though there are also ones that say there's a difference, yet are unable to reliably make the same statement once subjected to any kind of objective test. So there "saying" isn't really long lived. |
..... It's not a matter of cash. It's a matter of brains, and fuses are brainless. And delusional. |
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geoffkait - I am the King of Fiction and the King of Truth.
You are king of having to have the last word. |
folkfreak - Perhaps it's just the less constructive posters who are being blocked -- seems as if Geoff and I can post freely to the original Blue thread Geoff, constructive? Thanks. I needed a good laugh. |
@douglas_schroeder
My sentiments too! I'd venture to say nearly everyone else on the forum as well! |
That’s 2 "snake oil" fuse threads shut down, hope the others do too if they start with all the outrageous claims of of sound improvements for their systems being suddenly transformed.
But like I said they’re like weeds, pull one out and another one pops up. It’’s the mantra of the fusing shiller. And judging by Geoff’s post the weed seed has been sewn. +1 |
@geoffkait "Clowns are the pegs on which the circus is hung". P.T. Barnum cleeds - I don't think brain damage is a funny topic. Agreed. But my wallet and I are rather confident I don't have it. |
Oh and cleeds, you might want to consider brushing up on the English language.
Thank you for quoting me, however, you should note that my statement regarding drugs refers to the past, not the present.
You made a similar mistake when you confused the words "offer" and "promoting". 🤑
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Just so any interested party should know, any reference to me and drugs goes way back many years. Nothing current, except beer. I’d venture to say the majority of the world does or has tried some kind of drug, especially if one considers doctor prescribed drugs. Some of the greatest musicians have experimented too. Including the Beatles, which the vinyl lovers among the group typically revere. If you haven’t tried it, you ought to. It opens one mind to creativity and possibilities, not the impossible. |
geoffkait - I assume you misfired. Better load again. Nope. "My aim is true", to quote Elvis Costello. Incidentally, even you would have to agree I was/am right about the fact that you have to have the last word. Read back a few posts. As to drugs, should this forum close for 24 hours or more, or no members post in that period, you would suffer the worst withdrawal symptoms imaginable. Carry on. |
geoffkait - It’s a time honored tradition here for me to have the last word. Even if what you write is fiction, which you've since admitted you're the king of. |
Well what do we have here folks? Name calling? Intentional misspelling of someones user id, etc?
Isn't that grand?
I mean, it's completely childish and totally irrelevant.
It would be like my stating that the weather in Falls Church Virginia is 53 degrees. |
geoffkait - Help me out..... Is that asking too much?
No, it's not. I'll step aside so you can have the last word and get the help you are requesting. |
geoffkait - Now you can have the last word. I promise. @geoffkait I'm very appreciative of your allowing me to have the last word. So, if you don't care to answer the following legitimate question I have for you, I'll understand. I promise. Just seeking your *opinion*. Because your opinion cannot be right or wrong, I won't offer rebuttal ad nauseam. I promise. Lets assume you are entirely correct on the technical aspects/merits of fuses. Lets further assume you are able to hear a difference, and have elected to use said fuse(s). How does this change your "enjoyment" of listening to music? Thanks. |
@cleeds
I'd be appreciative if you could/would answer the following questions.
How does fuse and/or wire directionality change your "enjoyment" of listening to music?
Please speculate, in what way should someone else, such as myself, expect to benefit if fuses and/or wire is oriented correctly?
Thank you.
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@geoffkait
I knew you wouldn’t and/or couldn’t have any kind of meaningful answer to my question.
To demonstrate my honesty and promise to you, I shall offer no further rebuttal.
I’ll simply step aside once again, so you can continue to get the help you have requested.
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Thank you @danvignau for providing the help @geoffkait has requested. |
Hi @cleeds First, my apology as I meant to write "respectfully" instead of "respectively". No matter, you get the idea :) I think the changes that might result from reversing the orientation of a fuse would be a lot more subtle than discriminating between Bob Dylan and Amy Winehouse. The test you're describing is nowhere near rigorous enough to reliably reveal such differences, and I suspect you know that. Consider the operative word you are using - "subtle". Now consider many folks are clearly writing "major", "not so subtle" and other descriptors instead of the just the word subtle. I see/hear nothing wrong with the "blinded" Amy > Bob > Amy > Bob test I describe. In fact, I would have to think you and others would *want* to do a blind test in the manner I describe, even if merely to substantiate your belief. This is what I did when I purchased a DAC. Why wouldn't you/others do this when reversing a fuse/wire? |
cleeds - A primary reason I’ve never experimented with reversing fuses is that I don’t know how to conduct a listening test that would allow me to quickly switch back and forth between the two orientations..... That leaves me with speaker cables but again, how could I quickly switch between two orientations? .... @cleeds Understood. I respectively disagree, however, that there is any kind of necessity to do the reversal "quickly". If the test were simply for your own edification, you could enlist the help of a friend who would perform the reversal (i.e. the reversal or non reversal is blind to you). Granted, it could be a minute or two between each iteration of the test. Keep in mind though that many folks have expressed a "major" difference. In these cases, I humbly submit that if in fact there is a major difference, it should/could be detected regardless of the test methodology and how long or short of time elapses between each test. For example, if I play a Bob Dylan song and once complete I then play an Amy Winehouse song, I might say "they sound different" and in fact "they sound overwhelmingly and obviously different". In this case, it wouldn't matter that Amy Winehouse began playing 1 millisecond, 1 year, or anywhere in between after Bob Dylan. I’d tell you, *one hundred percent of the time* - as in never wrong once - whether or not Bob or Amy were the artist being played. Therefore, those who purportedly can hear a "major" difference when a fuse or wire is reversed, should also be subject to this same - and very simple - test, irrespective of duration of time between the first listen and subsequent listen. |
@cleeds
Fair enough. Then, given the recent communication, I'd imagine you might consider extending an apology to me for using the word "fraud" numerous times. What we have is a simple disagreement as to how any kind of testing would be performed. No right or wrong per se, just a difference of opinion. Thanks. |
geoffkait - ....The reason I say it’s a “fraud” is not because gdhal is intentionally perpetrating a fraud or a hoax, at least as far as I know, but because of something fundamental to testing in general. Keep in mind blind tests are almost always presented by skeptics as PROOF that a particular device or idea is a hoax or false.... The statement of mine that you've quoted was directed at cleeds. We know that you've already clearly indicated you are "the king of fiction" and (paraphrasing) "by tradition must have the last word". Is it also your belief that you can and should respond on behalf of other forum members? Further, I completely, utterly and entirely disagree with your assessment of the type of test I've proposed.But it's okay to agree to disagree, and at least you've recognized there is nothing "intentional". geoffkait - I’m not even considering the case where the test is manipulated to produce negative results. Given the simplicity and what should be relative ease of audibly hearing a difference when ordinary speaker wire is reversed given the test I've proposed (Amy > Bob > Amy > Bob), ***I'll allow YOU to manipulate it***. And you still won't hear a difference. Would you like to try? |
fleschler - I agree that no fuse is the best for sound but luckily, the SR Blue fuse sounds really similar to my friends’ identical amps but for his use of circuit breakers in place of the fuses. I’m waiting for the top-of-line SR "purple haze" fuse. |
clearthink - Where would this be done who would be witness to it what other requirements upon which you would demand previous to scheduling such a test and what other preconditions to you propose? Not allowed to adequately reply do to forum policy. clearthink - You keep saying you want us to conduct this test even though you don't conduct it yourself in the passed and you have already drawn your conclusion on the test that hasn't yet happened??? Not true at all. I have tried. It has, or hasn't, happened, depending on the perspective. |
clearthink - gdhal you are not making any sense what so ever why do you keep proposing this test if you also say that the forum does not allow it? You say it has happened hasn't happened well which is it? No proposals. Just opportunities. geoffkait - I’m getting a very bad feeling. Oh stop. You love this kind of stuff. Remember, withdrawal symptoms otherwise :) |
....I am beginning to think... This is good to understand. I suspect - but I could be wrong, hence just a suspicion - that you are very much aware of the manner in which I have asked that my opportunity be discussed. |
Some folks are beyond salvation 👹 |
@geoffkait
Please be reminded, you are to have the "last word". 😂
You must (rpt must) respond to clearthink. 😁 |
Yes my phriend jetter. I understand. I’m very much aware of those on the forum who listen to the heart-of-gold band 💛 and those who do not.
Had you not replied, I remained grateful geoffkait was to have his way and get the last word - gdhal 😉 |
uberwaltz -
Holy Moly
And I thought the SR Blue fuse thread was seriously deranged...... If you know GK is a thread "contributor", you can avoid having to read it to draw your quoted conclusion. 😁 |
^Hi douglas. And if it is true that someday components will have aftermarket fuses inside, may I ask your opinion as to how far into the future you estimate that would happen and, how that might effect the MSRP pricing (with respect to its current non-aftermarket fuse)? Thank you. |
Thank you,
@douglas_schroeder |
geoffkait - ...My old stomping grounds. Sigh. You know what can happen when you stomp around Geoff. 🐑 🐑 🐑 🏃🏻♂️ 🤣 |
ptss - Definitely disappointing when (some) gents can’t remain focused on the positive aspects of a topic :( +1 |
And I didn’t predict the appropriate response is "not allowed". 😮 |
uberwaltz - Gdhal, Why so surprised? Did you really think that all the blarney on the "other" fuse thread went unheeded or unnoticed by the powers that be.
Well, one of my posts was simply stating today's current news event.... as in a famous comedian being found guilty..... no need - IMO - to delete what is already in the public domain.....hence my surprise
😥
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uberwaltz - Gdhal, Why so surprised? Did you really think that all the blarney on the "other" fuse thread went unheeded or unnoticed by the powers that be.
Even more surprising - to me anyway - is how a post from kosst_amojan is deleted, yet a post by someone else who quotes the post by kosst_amojan remains. I’m surprised you’re not surprised 🤗 😆 |
I hate to judge too quickly but it appears those who believe in and sell voodoo are acting out on their delusional tendencies by having to have the last word. 😆
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geoffkait - You obviously don’t get it. I always get the last word. It’s the custom. One reason I’ve been in communication with Audiogon is to try and change - as in prevent - that though. 😁 Reminder: Withdrawal can be very painful 😩 |
^Well, I thought I made it clear that I'm not demanding anything (i.e. no one owes me any proof, etc.) to support the impossible. Hearing a difference when an ordinary fuse/wire is reversed falls into the category of impossible, by my definition. And, by your own statements, I don't need to submit any proof what-so-ever that it is in fact impossible.
Just pointing out that one should be honest *with themselves*. If you truly believe and are content with "I hear a difference" irrespective of anything else, then more power to you. Besides, it's your money.
Speaking of which.....
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@nonoise
Look, I'm truly sorry if my written replies offend you in any way.
Have you considered that "Ain't nobody messin' with you but you"? |
