The Gershman Avant Gardes with their itty bitty 8" woofers go down to a respectable 27Hz and have good control and slam. They're quite impressive for their size.
What is under $5k speaker with best bass slam?
Let's forget everything else. The bass should not necessarily go deep down to whale's voice territory.
Simply, what speaker <$5k has best bass slam?
Define bass slam? I don't know. Something I can feel with my body. Thump, slam, shockwave, etc.
Accompanied electronics? I don't know. Let's just talk about the speaker's potential.
Thanks
Doug
Simply, what speaker <$5k has best bass slam?
Define bass slam? I don't know. Something I can feel with my body. Thump, slam, shockwave, etc.
Accompanied electronics? I don't know. Let's just talk about the speaker's potential.
Thanks
Doug
58 responses Add your response
OK, I answered this previously, but thought that I would chime in again with a much different answer. I finally have my new sub (SVS PC 13 Ultra) tuned into my front speakers (Maggie 3.6R's) with a Velodyne SMS-1 sub equalizer and man, SLAM!!! Of course it's mostly the sub, but it really makes a huge differnce, and it's very well integrated. No sloppiness and a huge amount of air being moved. Songs such as the helicopter intro track and the beginning of "Another Brick in the Wall", the kick drum on "Hotel California", Toni Braxton's "Your Makin' Me High", and the first few bars of "Dead and Bloated" literally explode. More subtle and measured bass passages such as those on the whole Tierney Sutton album Dancing in the Dark, are fantastic as well. I'm happy about the Slammin' combination. Big loud sub tamed with the Velodyne system, and integrated into my Maggies. Very highly recommend. Well the Velodyne system for sure. |
A guy I bought an amp from had the the SCM 150's and played traditional Japanese and Chinese drum music on them - holy crap! Explosive dynamics, incredible timbre, and sheer power. Yet, everything was crystal clear. Holy crap! - is a fair assessment - it is almost impossible not to flinch or blink when you crank a pair of SCM150's on uncompressed drum music (those rare recordings like the Naxos Hok-Man Yim Poems if Thunder or Sheffield Labs Drum track). It can still startle you even though you know what is coming and when (after having heard the tracks many times). |
Doug, As a fellow drummer, I'll chime in with an opinion. If what you are after is for the low end to be more "lively", then strictly looking for slam capabilities may still leave you wanting. I actually found what I wanted by looking for an extremely balanced and well staged speaker top to bottom. With the midrange especially cleaned up, the stage opened up to the point it was much easier to hear the definition in the low end and it was less of a struggle to follow. I especially want to follow the subtleties of the kick and the baseline and that's what really enabled it for me. I eventually settled on the ProAC Response 1sc (about $2,500 new, but used on the 'gone for under 2k). They may be too small for a 400 square foot space, but they'd fill a 12 x 12 easily. Bottom line - if you want to get "involved" with the music and really 'feel' it, you need to be able to hear it clearly. Your milage may vary, but something to think about. |
Active ATC's are pretty damn impressive for bass slam, but are nowhere near Dh4kim's price range. A guy I bought an amp from had the the SCM 150's and played traditional Japanese and Chinese drum music on them - holy crap! Explosive dynamics, incredible timbre, and sheer power. Yet, everything was crystal clear. |
Will 12" drivers produce slam in a 12 by 12 room?In a room that small, I'd think your biggest problem wouldn't be finding speakers w/ slam, but finding speakers that won't overload the room w/ bass so that it cancels or muddies everything out. Room modes are going to be a bear in an untreated room of that size. Try this Room Mode Calulator to see how it looks |
I do not claim to be an expert in these matters, but dude....I tried my best to replace my kef 107's, but at the end of the day I just couldn't do it. Those two 10inch woofers gives me that DEEP bass that I love. I looked at revel salons and b&w N801 and decided to stay with my kef's. At least until I can find those at the absolute right price. Try to get your hands on a pair...you won't regret it!! |
I agree with most of these, especially the Gallo Ref 3.1 (with the bass amp), and especially the Klipsch K-horns. Those are, to me the be-all, end-all in Rock speakers. Additionally, for "slam" the Definitive Technology SC 7000 are pretty awe inspiring. One last vote, the best slam I that I have ever heard, was a buudy's Joseph Audio Monitors with a Talon sub. The sub definitely helped. |
I can't resist chiming in in favor of Mahlers. Indeed they can exhibit definite 'bass slam'. Furthermore, unless they are set up properly, they are driven with a great deal of power and a stout damping factor, they can in fact exhibit an excess in the mid to upper bass and some undue warming in the midrange. I have now used Mahlers for 6 months and have driven them with legacy Rowland 7Ms, Nuforce Ref 9 SE2 and Rowland 312. The only configuration where I may have detected some traces of unwanted stereotypical behavior is with the old 7M monos. With the Rowland 312 and Nuforce there is no bloat anywhere and bass is strong and instantaneous, if perhaps slightly more musical and pitched with the JRDG 312. It is worth pointing out that in rooms that tend to suffer of runaway bass, configuring the Mahlers with the subwoofers firing inward may yield a tighter -- if perhaps less expansive -- bass response. Lastly, my Mahlers started to sing only after a 500 hrs breakin followed by a professional 'Master Set' performed by Soundings of Denver (Co). The Mahlers have been just updated with a new tweeter configuration and are now on version V1.5 which has unfortunately gone up in price. Used Mahlers on the Gon are therefore an absolute steal! |
Matti: The Salons use 4th order crossovers, which ultimately allow them to go louder than the 1st-order slope Mahlers, assuming you have massive amplification to drive them (Salons are only 86 db. efficient, while Mahlers are +/- 90 db. efficient). The Mahlers are a very different type of speaker, being intentionally colored to sound good with large-scale symphonic (i.e., rolled off a bit in the presence region, well-damped cone materials, fabric-dome tweeter, fat in the midbass, all designed to take the bite out of what digital does to string sections and to give body to wood-body instruments -- he didn't name it "Mahler" by accident). Having a peaky midbass, they are particularly exciting with rock/pop (... the WattPuppy formula). The Salons are more linear and more extended, lower distortion, and often times, a lot less satisfying because of the nature of many recordings (not made for high-end equipment). The real problem with Salons is that they require high-powered amps, and given that most high-powered amps sound like shit, well, ... . |
The thing with Legacy is my father owned them and tho you would think they slam they dont, as I mentioned earlier the Vandersteen Quatro is a speaker I would look into...my dad purchased the wood version and they make the Focus sound like a sloppy limited LF speaker. My father was happy with his Legacy speakers for years but didnt know what he was missing til he found it. I dont know about the slam being coloration, I think most take slam to be quick fast, tight and that impact you can feel that makes you smile....thats Vandersteen's bass. |
Hi Dh4kim Will 12" drivers produce slam in a 12 by 12 room? I think that they will, but this is very subjective. How much slam do you want? I think that slam is probably a sort of coloration, but for me it is a euphonic coloration. I like to feel the thump in my gut, the visceral impact along with the aural impact. If in this case "best" is "most", then bigger is pretty much always better. Bill |
I have a pair of speakers w/ sep. bases. (SAP Quattros) They have side fireing woofers.The woofers are supposed to face each other. When I reverse the lowers and have them fire to the sides I get the feeling I may do foundation damage---and--- with not that much volume. Sealed/no vent bass cabinets./mid 90's sensitive. |
I'm on the same page a Bill - of course I suspect this is because we share the same concept of slam. Short transients that pressure the room/ears - it is almost more of a feeling than "sound" as it is so transient. This is completely different from tremendous impressive bass - my speakers with 12" woofers have very little heavy bass response - on most music it is nearly all transient effects at the low end that you perceive..... except, of course on double bass and organ if you get my meaning. To get the full impact you also need to buy the right music - try Keb 'Mo "Slowdown" album - it has a very nice dynamic recording of drums - and use this to audition speakers. You also may need to buy acoustic treatments and use a bass management system to get a reasonably flat in room response....room modes can mess up slam too. Perception of Slam is also related to the way the 3 to 5 KHz region behaves ....many audiophile designs are deliberately rolled off in the upper mid range region (for that more polite laid back enjoyable sound) and this will reduce the perception of slam ....which is why I suggested giving pro speakers an audition. I suspect the Genelec's may be a wee bit small in a 20 by 20 foot room but if you don't listen loud it may be worth a try. |
Like Shadorne's advice, I also thought about using pro speakers. But I wonder if there's any good looking pro speakers that will not ruin the indoor scene of my house. Not that I can think of. They all have an industrial look. The Genelec's in White look pretty cool though... |
Granted there are obviously some speakers better than others in every price category but forget everything else? No component is an island and the speaker is perhaps more affected by every other element of a system than any other component. How can anyone possibly tell a speakers' true capability without serious attention given to the electronics, room acoustics, speaker placement, cables, line conditioning, the amount of juice coming from the wall, and vibration management applied to the speakers and to all the other components? Fall short in any one or two of these categories and you could end up with some of the sloppiest, rolling earthquake-like, ill-defined bass you'd never care to hear unless your cruisin' in your low-rider. Get all of these elements right and you're in a whole 'nother league and you may find that it matters a little less which speaker you chose. Assuming it's a full-range speaker of course. All that taken into consideration the tightest, most well-defined, and most realistic bass I've ever heard by far came from a pair of used $4K (new $8700) Aerial Acoustic Model 10T speakers mated to a pair of Nuforce SE Class D amps. Never heard anything even close to it. At least until recently. Case-in-point, there are plenty of people who will claim the Aerial Model 10T's bass was some of the worst they've ever heard. -IMO |
I really like my Emerald Physics CS-2's..Man can they do bass!! I wont get "too" carried away here..just go hear them..The buzz is true. Watch out for these! I hear rumblings from dealers about guys selling their $20K Vandy 5's.. 13K Merlins, and Quad 2905's to get these..I dont know for sure, but from what I hear in my system..I could see that happening. |
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Hi Dh4kim Asking for the "best" of anything will generate multiple impressions. For slam, a driver/drivers with a large radiating surface is necessary. Slim towers with multiple 6 or 8-inch drivers won't do. At least 10-inch driver(s) are needed. The amount of slam is also room dependant. A pair of speakers with 12-inch woofers in a small to medium room can provide slam, but in a large living room their slam will be lost. The aforementioned JBL, Klipsch, Tannoys, ATC, and maybe the Von Schweikert speakers will all give you slam. I will add B&W 801s to the list. But you can't get away from large speakers if you really want slam. Bill |
Thanks for all the inputs. I mostly listen to music as backgrounds at a low level. My system is Ayre AX-7e, Harbeth HL Compact 7es2, computer digital output converted by Benchmark DAC1. I use apple lossless files. Their synergy is unbelievable and I am 99% satisfied. The only thing I sometimes miss is "bass slam". I don't care too much for lowest frequency. But since I love drum sound and occasionally play drums, Harbeth C7 is not enough. Like Shadorne's advice, I also thought about using pro speakers. But I wonder if there's any good looking pro speakers that will not ruin the indoor scene of my house. Doug |
I owned Mahlers for six years, have owned other large speakers and have heard a lot of large speakers - "slam" is the Mahler's forte. In each speaker, you have two 10" woofers, two ports, and two 7" mid/bass drivers. The 7" mid/bass drivers are the same 7" driver used in the WattPuppy and Maxx II's, they are normally used as bass drivers, and are, due to first-order crossovers, down only 6 db. at 35 Hz. (and that's just the mid/bass drivers). Largely as a result of the foregoing, the speakers are tipped up in the midbass and move a lot of air -- they'll pin you up against a wall. |
Define bass slam? I don't know. Something I can feel with my body. Thump, slam, shockwave, etc If you are looking for high impact shockwave rather than resonant or warm muddy or dull but impressive bass - i.e. you want short duration but something that hits very hard so you feel rather than only hear it - then look at "critically damped designs" with pro woofers of 8" or more. JBL's. Tannoys. ATC etc. For example a pair of Genelec 8050A new (including built in amps) will set you back about $4500...and give plenty of SLAM in a medium sized space. I would say 8" is a minimum as few six inchers have much slam and two six inch woofers rarely equals an single 8 inch. Also be wary of ported designs if the port is designed to give the speaker bass extension...good luck! I think you may find the Mahlers will be in the warm but impressive direction rather than pure "slam" or tight bass. Of course, I may have misinterpreted your meaning of "slam"... |
