What trans (SUT) for a Victor mc-5E cartridge?

There is no one "right" transformer for a particular mc cartridge. Each SUT + cartridge has a particular "flavor"! Took me a long time to realize this! Now I have several SUT's on hand to try and use with my collection of lomc's. None of the SUT's are bad matches! They all sound "good"! The late Art Dudley stated the same thing - and he was a serious fan of LP playback! You cannot go wrong with any of the SUT's on your list!

I usually buy second hand SUT's on eBay - along with new custom-made ones using vintage microphone transformers (Altec). I also have a new Bellari ($450) that I like a lot. along with a Denon 340. Right now I have a Coral Sleeping Beauty mc on the FR29 arm/Ariston RD11 TT into one of the custom-made SUT's ($200). On the Pioneer PLX 1000 TT I have a Denon 103R into the Denon SUT. On these two TT setups the SQ is quite excellent!

Don't feel that you must spend a lot of money for an excellent SUT - like a silver-wire Koetsu ($2000). The Bellari I bought for $450 is about the most I personally would spend! There are some nice Fidelity Research SUT's available on eBay from Japan  for under $500!

I'm real happy with a Denon AU340 SUT. Has 2 sets of inputs, 3 and 40 ohm selection plus a bypass if one of the inputs that your using is a MM cart.

Uses Tamura TKS83 transformers but you can often purchase a complete Denon AU340 from Yahoo Buyee for less than the cost of the bare transformers elsewhere.

BillWojo

The Jensen mc-2rr-L would match up to that cartridge if it is 30 ohm internal impedance. The Jensen presents a load of 430 ohms to the cartridge, listed in the specs. It is a great sut for $599. Made in the USA...Tavish uses Jensen derived transformers in the Adagio. The Jensen mc-2rr-L was generally designed with the venerable Denon 103 in mind. That cartridge has an internal impedance of 40 ohms.

http://www.jensen-transformers.com/product/mc-2rr-l/

https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/jensen-mc-2rr-iso-max-moving-coil-phono-cartridge-step-up-transformer/

I speak from experience. I bought my first lomc and SUT back in 1977. A GAS Sleeping Beauty Super Elliptical (Coral B777) and a Cotter Verion P SUT (Jensen). $200 and $375. Before this I had two other cartridges: MicroAcoustics 2002E electret and a Dynavector 20B high output mc.

Correction: in my second post the SUT in use with the Denon 103R is the model 320 - which has only one set of inputs. 

that cartridge has signal strength of 0.2mv and it's coil impedance is 30 ohms. 

for this, and future cartridges, you want a SUT with several adjustable gain settings, and several separately adjustable impedance. Pass for MM cartridges is very flexible. More than 1 input is a wonderful thing, I use all 3 of mine.

I have and love my Fidelity Research FRT-4, and Entre ET-100 is similar, 4 optional settings and PASS for MM.

However, the 4 optional settings: the gain and impedance are a fixed relationship to each other, impedance is not individually adjustable. You need fairly high gain, the higher the X factor, the lower the resultant impedance that will be shown to your MM phono input. 

guidance formula of 10x for your cartridge's 30 ohm impedance is 300 ohms impedance to be shown to a typical 47k phono input. up or down from that guidance. Far off: no harm, but frequency response will be effected.

Dear @serge8  : Of the ones you named you can't go grong with either the Denon 340 or the Entré 100-2.

Both are not only very good SUTs but comes with gain and impedance different choices to mate with any cartridge including yours.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

What phono stage?

lew: Which difference makes a MM phono stage working along a SUT?

R.

Because MM phono stages vary quite a bit in the amount of phono gain they provide, from 39db for the Ypsilon to 50db for the Manley Steelhead, just to name two extreme examples. Then there is the fact that the OP wants to amplify a cartridge that puts out 0.2mV and has an internal resistance of 30 ohms. Those two parameters suggest he is limited to a SUT that provides 10X gain, a 1:10 turns ratio, IF one wants to observe the rule of thumb that says the phono input impedance should be 10X or better in value than the internal resistance of the cartridge. Assuming a 47K phono load resistor, a 1:10 SUT will have the cartridge seeing a 470 ohm load. That’s fine, but as soon as you go to higher gain SUTs (higher turns ratios), the impedance seen by the cartridge will fall way below the ideal, in terms of its ability to drive the phono input. For example, a 1:20 SUT will give a load of slightly more than 100 ohms. A 30-ohm output Z is driving a ~100 ohm input Z. In that case you need enough gain to overcome the fraction of cartridge output that will be lost to ground, because of the relative impedance mismatch. So, in short, seems to me you want an MM phono stage with relatively high gain, as MM stages go, because ideally you don’t want to have to use a SUT with much more than a 1:10 turns ratio. Of course, the OP needs to take into account the additional gain of his linestage, as well, which could ameliorate the potential problem.

I should finally make clear that there is nothing magical about the 1:10 output to input impedance ratio. The fraction of signal voltage that is lost to ground increases linearly as the ratio gets closer to 1:1. Even the 1:10 ratio does not result in perfect efficiency; signal voltage transfer is a bit better than 90% at that ratio.

Once one knows the phono gain and the linestage gain, and perhaps the input sensitivity of the amplifiers, then one can decide whether a 1:10 SUT would be sufficient.

lewm: The Denon 340 and Entré 100-2 comes with  3 different gain/ratio  and impedance choices. There is no problem as you posted.

I think the OP is looking for help  and those two SUTs have the solution/answer to him and his cartridge that over time I'm sure it won't be his first and last LOMC cartridge. Don't you think?

R.

Dear Raul, please reread my post. Transformers have no impedance per se. My point is that with the peculiar nature of this cartridge, having a low output and a high internal resistance, the choices of gain ratio are limited to around 1 to 10 or may be a little higher, if one wants to observe the rule of thumb about impedance matching. Of course, one is always free to ignore that principle. But if you choose to use a higher gain ratio transformer, then you will be wasting some of the already very low cartridge output. It’s like chasing your tail.

Which is why it would be useful to know what phono and linestage the OP uses.

I just checked the specifications of the Denon AU 340 transformer. I agree it would be a good choice for the OP, if he will have enough total gain with just a 1 to 10 step up ratio. Using the 40 ohm inputs of the transformer, a gain ratio of 1 to 10 is provided. The designer of the transformer was accounting for the fact that most phono stages present a 47K ohm load, and the resulting 470 ohm impedance will be fine for a 40 ohm cartridge, or a 30 ohm cartridge such as the one owned by the OP. So there is nothing about this that is different from what I have been saying. If he had a 3 ohm internal impedance cartridge, the transformer can provide a 1 to 33 gain ratio. Bur the 3 ohm inputs should obviously not be used with his cartridge because the 1:33 turns ratio results in a less than 47 ohm impedance for his 30 ohm cartridge. In that scenario about half the cartridge output is lost to ground and for other reasons there would be loss of treble.

lewm : " Which is why it would be useful to know what phono and linestage ""

No, the problem is that usually you really did not read the OP thread or even make not a minimum search of the SUT's OP named or whatever OP threads.

Not doing that job only " distress " a MC newcomer with out necessity .

Anyway, the OP is safe with those SUT's no matters what.

R.

Raul, I can only hope that you get some help for your hostility. Did you notice that I agree with you on a choice of SUT? Perhaps you are the one who either does not read or does not fully understand. You need a certain amount of signal voltage to drive an amplifier. Typically at least 0.5V, or more is better to achieve full output. If you use the 40 ohm inputs on the AU340, you will increase the output of his cartridge from 0.2mV to 2mV. If you connect that to a typical MM stage with 40db of gain, you will derive an output from the phono stage of 200mV or 0.2V. You would want some additional gain from the linestage in order to drive an amplifier to satisfying levels. The OP himself has not posted since he introduced this thread. I am trying to be helpful to serge8, whether that upsets you or not. The 3-ohm inputs on an AU340 are of no real use to the OP, given his predetermined choice of cartridge, but the Denon is a good unit, and it wouldn’t hurt to have the capacity to accommodate a future LOMC cartridge that might have a more typical low internal resistance. I see that the OP also posted his question on Vinyl Engine, where he got a similar response from one of the guys there, without the craziness.