which turntable or how to convert to balanced phono setup?


Im a total noob with vinyl please bear with me,

I just purchased a b stock Teac PE 505 balanced phono preamp to replace a buggy Gold Note PH5

im looking for a turntable upgrade to run balanced  with an mc cart

so aside from those tables that have xlrs outs,

is it just a matter of finding a din to xlr tone arm cable?  or is there more to it?

I dont understand the differences between tables like mine that have RCA outs (technics 1200 gr2)

and those with "tone arm" cables

 

 

 

audiocanada

In gear that really does offer both a SE and a separate balanced input, the gain claimed by the manufacturer is usually quoted as being different for the two types of input, with the balanced circuit gain being higher.  Why is that or is it a false claim?  In the PE505 owners manual, the data sheet shows the gain is the same via either input type. I took  this to mean that cleeds is correct in his assertion that the RCA inputs are hooked up for balanced operation. This can also be seen in a diagram on page 9 where they show not to drive the PE505 with a SE output from a TT, "for best results". The diagram also suggests the "ground" side of the RCA jacks is not connected to audio ground, in other words RCA hot must go to pin2 and RCA ground to pin 3. However, they never come out and say it.

On your first point, we are actually in agreement. The SE input is grounded (to pin1) in the case where an SE input is provided, like I did say, and like it is on my Atma-sphere amplifiers, except I am wrong about the need for a transformer or some other device to convert the SE input to balanced. Thank you for the correction. (I’ve never driven my amplifiers from an SE source or using the RCA inputs, but I know the circuit quite well.)

Do you know why the owners manual for the PE505 says the XLR inputs are for MC cartridges only?

You often quote AES48. What does AES48 say?

Funnily enough, I just found a good website that talks about AES48. (To read the actual original language, you have to pay AES for the text.). Here.

 

@lewm @cleeds

I am enjoying the discussion, but according to @pindac earlier in this thread, you are both wrong !!!!!

Additionally neither Stereo or Mono are coming from the Turntable, these are embedded into the Hard Medium being the Vinyl LP.

Isn't science education wonderful these days?

In gear that really does offer both a SE and a separate balanced input, the gain claimed by the manufacturer is usually quoted as being different for the two types of input, with the balanced circuit gain being higher.  Why is that or is it a false claim? 

@lewm Let's assume a transformer coupled balanced input. The signal is applied to either end of the winding of the transformer. Now ground one side without changing anything else. The gain remains the same because the same Voltage is applied. 

Now if the balanced source is simply two single-ended sources with one out of phase with the other, if you run that single-ended you only use one of the two sources. This method works but is not AES48 compliant. When both sources are being used the signal Voltage is twice as much so there is a 6dB increase. That is not how its supposed to work if you want the most performance out of the balanced connection. 

In the PE505 owners manual, the data sheet shows the gain is the same via either input type. I took  this to mean that cleeds is correct in his assertion that the RCA inputs are hooked up for balanced operation.

It can mean also that the input is a differential amplifier, such as an opamp. The CMRR (Common Mode Rejection Ratio) is high enough that the opamp won't really care if you drive one input or both. As long as the input signal is the same Voltage either way the output level won't change. IOW the opamp amplifies what is different between its inputs; if one input is at ground its fine with that; the overall gain is the same. 

Do you know why the owners manual for the PE505 says the XLR inputs are for MC cartridges only?

Its a high gain input so can be overloaded with a high output MM cartridge. 

You often quote AES48. What does AES48 say?

AES48 is part of the balanced line standard regime (the other part being the dBm level the source can drive). Essentially its a connection standard; in it we see that the ground circuit (such as the arm tube of a tonearm) is not carrying any signal return (as the shield of an RCA connection might). Instead the balanced line signal is generated entirely with respect to pins 2 and 3 of the XLR connector and carried by the corresponding conductors in the interconnect cable. 

This means it is possible to have a balanced connection with no shield at all, since ground isn't part of the balanced signal. The shield is there for shielding only and nothing else. 

There seems to be fair amount of high end audio balanced equipment that is not AES48 compliant. Such equipment usually has dual single-ended outputs with one of the outputs out of phase with the other, but both referencing ground and therefore fully functional if ground is used as a single-ended signal return with one of the two outputs. 

Put another way a phono cartridge is a balanced source that is AES48 compliant. If it were non-compliant it might have 6 output connections instead of 4, the extra two connections being center taps of each coil (for ground). Its not done that way because a center tap can never be exactly center of the coil and so can significantly degrade CMRR. By allowing it to float CMRR is as ideal as possible.  

 

 

Ralph (Atma), thanks for the clear explanation of AES48. Your statement that the XLR inputs on the TEAC offer only MC gain levels makes sense but the owners manual never actually says as much, or maybe I have to re-read it. The device does have selectable gain. Maybe into the XLRs, low gain is not selectable. English translation of Japanese tech jargon is not always the best either. Anyway the OP got his question answered, and I learned something about driving a balanced differential circuit with a SE device.