Who owns/owned a Fidelity Research FR1 MK3F & what is similar but better
Well assuming you also own either FR-64 or FR-66, suitable phono-pre or SUT, you should try one of the FR-7 series carts. Preferably FR-7 fz version. There is a thread ''short choot out'' in which FR-7 fz is compared (among other) with Koetsu Coral stone with undecided (2 : 2) result.. I needed 10 years for this discovery you can start tomorrow. This btw is the sense of our forum: learning from other members expereinece. |
It is in this midrange zone that the voices of Nancy Wilson, amongst others, become incredibly real, intoxicating and seductive. It is also in this range where trumpets, saxophones, snare drums, bass guitar & piano sound so palpable you feel like you can reach out and touch them. Believe it or not, but i have the same feeling with my Fidelity Research FR-5E (low inductance MM cartridge designed by Ikeda San). Jonathan Carr was right about this forgotten gem when recommended to try it. This is my first experience with FR cartridges, but very unique experience compared to more expensive vintage MM cartridges i’ve tried/owned before. I will keep my eye on FR products from the past. |
In fact, I also own a FR-Mk3f thanks to Nandric, which sees regular action on a Micro Seiki BL-91 with a Fidelity Research FR-64S and can truly confirm your statements, ateal. I recently purchased a NOS John Marovski Mirror Image Transducer MIT-1 cartridge (essentially a "tuned" Coral MC cart with a Van den Hul diamond) from Nandric as well, which was striking in its display of music and possibly even more detailed in the treble than the FR-1, but the FR-1 struck me as being more live-like in the sense of sounding more natural and it was clearly more detailed in the mids than the MIT. That said and to be fair, I only test-ran the MIT and it has not seen any play-in time yet, so this comparison is likely premature. I have not heard any other upward comparisons yet, only downwards to my parents Dual 505-4 with Ortonfon OMB-10 MM cartridge, which it clearly beats in terms of resolution and clarity across the entire spectrum. Do you play your FR-1 using a Step-UP Transformer? If not and you think it's great already, just wait till you hear it using e.g. the simple Fidelity Research FRT-3 SUT and watch how it comes alive... THEN you've got your step-up improvement and you need no more :-) no pun intended, but still befitting. |
Thanks guys for your feedback. That FR7f does look interesting to try or even get a listen to but it won't work for me as I use an Oracle SME 345 tonearm and Oracle Delphi MK III TT. The FR5e also looks interesting for a MM. andremusik, Glad to hear that someone else shares my observations of this magnificent cart and yes I do use and prefer SUT's as they are absolutely magical with LOMC's. My current SUT is the Audio Technica AT 700T which houses two large toroidal transformers. This was 75,000 yen back in the day so it was up there with the quality of the top Ortofon and Fidelity Research models. In fact I did own a beautiful condition Fidelity Research FRT-4 SUT which I used briefly with the FR-1 but whilst the playback was very detailed, it was not as rich and engaging as it is with the AT 700T. I am currently on the hunt for the limited edition AT 1000T SUT which is a beast of thing at 10kg's. If I can snag one for around $800 i will be a happy man. |
Our versatile old member Dertonarm beloging to the so called ''German group'' (Syntax and Thuchan) was/is a big admirer of Ikeda san and his products. In particular the FR-64/66 tonearms and series FR-7 carts. which he used as his reference till he designed and produced his own. tonearms and carts. But to me the best tribute to Ikeda san is writen by our member ddriveman in his post ''mini-shootout '' with comparison between SPU, Koetsu, Fidelity Research and Ikeda 9 (the catileverless cart) . Alas I can only provide the date of his contribution in the MM thread (09-28-2014). The remarcable outcome of this ''shootout'' is the undecided ranking between an +30 years old cart (FR-7 fz) and the modern Koetsu Coral stone (2 : 2 votes from the participants in this experiment). My own ''vote'' is FR-7fz= Ikeda 9 C; I wish I could afford the Koetsu even without diamond cantilever (grin). |
Hi chakster, I am, alas, not familiar with Miyajima carts you mentioned but well with Miyabi Standard. Takeda san the designer is actually discovered by M. Levinson who ordered ''his'' carts by Takeda and sold under his own. (firm) name. His ''Cello'' is the most beautiful cart ever made in my opinion. Krell copied Levinson and sold two models under his own name. Both made unwillingly P&R for Takeda who later on produced the same cart under his own brand ''Miyabi''. Alas not enymore available but certainly one of the best carts ever produced. I hope I will not get reprimand from Raul or Syntax for my opinion? |
What's the difference between F and FZ models, Nandric ? Seems like FZ are the rarest and more expensive. I believe those FR-7 with spherical tip is not interesting compared to F and FZ with advanced stylus profile (which some with different coils as well) ? Tonearms designed for low compliance Denon or SPU should be good for Fidelity Research F7 cartridges? |
Hi chakster, The diffrence between FR-7 f and fz is the higher output by fz: 0, 2 mV versus 0, 15 mv. The 702 has the shortest cantilever. The question or the ''problem'' of the stylus shape is not yet settled. So conical stylus is still relevant. Andereoli (Magic diamond) swears by this shape while Cotter has chosen the FR-7f instead of other FR-7 kinds. The relationship between the grooves and stylus shape should be explained by the more technical members in our forum. I use at present Denon AU-S1 SUT in my ''lab system'' with SP- 10 mk 2 and Ikeda 345 tonearm. The phono-pre is the improved Jasmine :LP 2 . The speakers are Verity Audio Fidelio. |
There is a FR-1 Mk3 (without 'f' and red print on the cartridge body) and a FR-1 Mk3f with version number in white print. The 'f' version is with silver coils and supposedly the better sounding one, though I'm just quoting a statement from another thread and have not compared both versions against each other. All I know is that I have the "f" ... thanks again to nandric 😀 |
ATEAL, sorry for the delay responding to you. FR1-mk3f, yes, I have two, it is a wonderful machine. Even watch.e above loves his, even more than his others. Either of Ikeda-san inventions will work well with the cartridge, some like the previous Fidelity Research tonearms, while others, prefer the extra experience that he has placed into the design of the new, and currently available, Ikeda tonearms...simply superior to most designs out there. If, and when, you will need the cartridge looked over, I understand that Axel is your man. Cheers! |
In our discussion about FR-64/66 in which the passion was more important ''argument'' than technical ussues J. Carr mentioned Ikeda 345 tonearm as ''Ikeda's best'' so far. I still love my FR-64 but use the Ikeda 345. Preferably with FR-7 series carts (fz,f and 702) and the Ikeda 9 (the cantileverless kind). My ''new'' Nakamichi MC 1000 (re-tiped by Exper Stylus with Paratrace stylus) just joined the mentioned ''chosen one''. |
Hi Nany, super, spot on regarding the Ikeda designed tonearms and matching cartridges. Passion, it is everywhere! If you do not mind, I have a question for you; do you really live near a canal ;)? BTW, I do love your city and your sense of humor...along with your superior taste in tonearms! Ateal, IMHO, buy one, anytime you are ready would be nice! If you do not have a FR1-mk3f, and would like to have a nice one, please send me a pm. Cheers! |
Who the hell is Nany? Ateal ? What do you mean with his ''superior taste'' in tonearms? How are we suposed to ''taste'' our arms. I love my (steel) FR -64 arms but never considered to ''taste'' them for obvious reasons (aka ''hardened steel''). Passion does not need confusion between ''categories'' to be explained. BTW the problem of metaphors is that anyone is free to interprete them as he likes. |
Hi unoear, I already have two FR1 MK3F's which are both in great condition and exceptional performers. Out of curiosity I recently bought a beautiful condition and rare Shinon Red Boron which is a Medium Output Moving Coil at 1.0mV. The reason I bought it was because the reviews back in 1991 were very complimentary and even stated "that it offered most of the virtues of a top end Koetsu or Kiseki" but at half the price ($900 in 1991). I have to say that I have not been disappointed. In comparing the FR1 with the Shinon Red I would say that the FR1 is like a full bodied super smooth red wine or a deep rich dark chocolate. Loads of presence, fully immersive, it just wraps you in the music and gets everything right tonally. Very easy on the ear with no listening fatigue ever. I guess I now understand when people say the cartridge gets out of the way of the music. The Shinon is very similar in rich tones but has slightly more refinement in the bass and a provides slightly better rendition of solo vocals. I have decided the FR1 is still my favorite and will be my daily driver, with the Shinon being brought out for the audiophile quality jazz albums and female vocalists. |
Hi Ateal, I have the imression that nobody cares about the question asked by the thread author. He deed not ask info about the FR-1 but about some ''similar but (possible) better cart''. By describing differences between the FR-1 and the Shinon you obviously overlooked the question asked. The same apply for chakster: what is the connection with his new (MM) FR-6SE as well the fact that this cart can be used with heavy tonearms? |
@nandric well, i have not heard FR-1 mk3, but i think Fidelity Research MM design is also interesting and worth to try for those who addicted to FR sound. I was very imperred what can do FR-5E compared to Victor X1IIE, Ortofon M20FL Super etc. This is very musical cartridge. Hope i will find Ikeda's MC cartridges in the future, but for Ateal my advice is to try Ikeda's MM. |
Dear chakster, while I participated in the MM thread from 2007 and on and bought many in order not to stay behind I always prefered the MC kind. But we all try to turn our subjective preferences into some ''objective sense''. I just lately discovered the FR-7 series. Dertonarm advised me 10 years ago to try them but while I admire the guy my own opinion was more important to me. This ''learning curve'' of Raul never impressed me because I don't consider psychology as a science (grin). However there may be some truth in this learning curve. Anyway I learned to love this FR-7 series and added Ikeda 9 (cantileverless kind) to them. With my new Denon AU-S1 SUT I enjoy them all each day. However I am most impressed with the FR-7fz and use the ''f'' and the (rare) 702 as a spare. If you own the FR-64/66 tonearm write to me for a possible deal. |
No i don’t have FR-64/66 tonearms, i still have Schick tonearm for low compliance cartridges (i’m gonna try with FR-6SE), for the rest i use Reed 3p. The FR-5E mm cartridge was recommended by J.Carr, not by Raul. I believe Halcro has both FR-5E and FR-6SE. However i ’m fine with Raul’s recommendation when it comes to cartridges like AT-ML180/OCC (even AT-ML150/OCC is great). I like MCs as well, the one i like seems nobody even tried: Argent MC500HS (sapphire cantilever, line contact stylus, high output, from the 80s). P.S. FR-1 mk3F seemed to be more universal to mate with different arms than headshell integrated FR-7. Never seen FR 702. |
Have a pair of FR MC 202 carts. Just for fun I have tried about 4-5 other carts only to promptly return to the FR. Smooth music when the music is smooth but it rocks out without a hitch. Bought the backup as soon as I saw it. The first one was bought NOS, so as long as the second one is performing great that NOS sits in the box ready for it's time. |
Yes, this is a LINK to t_bone's Fidelity Reasearch thread. And this is what J Carr said: "The PMC-3 is far less popular than the FR-1 or 7, but was influenced by the FR-7's thinking, and is certainly worth searching out." - J.Carr FR also had quite interesting MM designs. I'm not too fond of the electrical characteristics of most MMs (nor how they sound), but the low-inductance FR-5E is a notable exception." - J.Carr |
Here and elsewhere the question has been asked what is the exact difference between FR7f and FR7fz. As far as I can detect with my fairly basic magnifier, they have the same cantilever and the same stylus, called 'refined line contact'. It is documented that the specs are different: FR7fz has higher output (0.24 mV versus 0.2 mV) and higher impedance (5 ohm versus 3 ohm) than FR7f (and basic FR7). While the reason for this difference is unclear, most users who have compared them have a preference for the FR7fz. Myself included, although I must say the MC702 comes really really close. In corona lockdown you start doing weird things, so I did a close inspection of all my cartridges. And whaddayouknow? I'd swear I can see that the FR7fz has silver coils, instead of copper as in the case of FR7f (and MC702). I remember reading somewhere that the first batch of the original FR7 had silver coils. So perhaps Ikeda revisited the initial model with the FR7fz, incorporating some of the design improvements he made along the way. A final statement of sorts, 'Z' being the last letter of the alphabet. But 'Z' is also the first letter of 'zilver', the Dutch word for silver. Now why didn't I think of that before? 😂 |
Interesting @edgewear What’s the hype about 702 by the way ? I never tried this model, but looking at the specs for the rest of FR-7 HERE and comparing to the specs from my the scan of the FR catalog i see there is not difference between 702 and FR-7f **Specs for Fidelity-Research MC-702: Output: 0.2 mV Playback frequency response: 10 - 45 000 Hz Channel separation is better than 28db Channel balance: 1dB max Coil Impedance: 2 Ohm Load Impedance: 3 Ohm or higher Tracking weight: 2-3g (optimal 2.5g) Stylus shape: Refined Contact type solid diamond Dynamic Compliance: 7cu @ 100Hz Weight 29g P.S. there is no 702 in the Japanese catalog, but there is a 702 in English (export) catalog. Was it just FR-7f branded FR-702 for export sales outside of Japan ? |
Dear chakster, I wouldn’t say there’s a hype about the MC702, it’s the least know member of the FR7 family (it even changed its name). It may have been a rebadged FR7f for export purposes, which wasn’t an uncommon practice. Ikeda himself did something similar with the Ikeda 9, as the Rex and the one with the Japanese characters (called Kiwami I believe) apparently were identical. Whatever the case, I can directly compare it with FR7f and while the specs and stylus are identical, they definitely do not sound the same. I’d say the MC702 is slightly tailored towards a more open and detailed sonic presentation. Perhaps in an attempt to bring it closer to the generally accepted ’modern’ sound of MC’s, which has sometimes been accused of having a deliberate (and artificial) treble rise to create the illusion of hyper detail and transparency. But there is nothing artificial about the MC702 sound and I would describe it as a slightly more refined version of the FR7f. Some folks have also suggested that the MC702 has a shorter cantilever, but I’m not so sure about that. In any case it hits the ’dots’ on the Feickert exactly like the other FR7 versions, without changing the position of the FR64s. |
There is a hype because it is one of the rarest version of FR 7 family. @edgewear You’re right about shorter cantilever, as i can read in the English catalog about model 702: "Newly developed short cantilever reduce the effective mass of the moving parts to approximately two thirds that of previous MC cartridges to faithfully reproduce the wide dynamic range of the highly modulated groove cut into today’s best audiophile discs." I must say there is no FR-7fz in this catalog, while the rest of the models such FR-7 are there. Probably FR-7fz indeed was the latest model. Mystery! |
Indeed some mysteries remain. But they sound great, no mystery there! Coincidentally I recently discovered that they shift another gear if you use them with a silver wired step up transformer. I acquired an Ortofon T-3000 for use with my MC5000 and MC7500 carts, but the FR7 also benefit greatly from using this device. I had been on the lookout for FR's own silver wired SUT, but that's next to impossible to find. The Ortofon seems to be a great substitute. Recommended! |
Coincidentally I recently discovered that they shift another gear if you use them with a silver wired step up transformer. I've been using them with Luxman Toroidal Silver SUT But the recent discovery is Current Injection phono stage, it's so nice with FR-7fz |
Historical note, going back to Nandric's post of 04-25-2016 7:10am, regarding the FR1-Mk3 "F" compared to a plain F-less Mk3. I have a review from circa 1980, possibly in HFN, stating that the FR1-Mk3 had a nasty treble peak, which Fidelity Research promptly fixed — and added "F" to mean "flat". According to the review, the peak was eliminated by adding a tiny tantalum cap inside the cartridge body. I've seen photos of a nude Mk3F and couldn't see a cap added to the normal workings, even a tiny one, and there's not much room in there. I have three of the Mk3F cartridges, all NOS, and I find they lack the last bit of transparency of my preferred MCs. That may be because they're NOS and have not "broken in"... or whatever a 40 year-old suspension does with adequate playing time. |
This is why the most valuable FR LOMC cartridges today is only FR-7 series (no one never noticed any issue with its sealed suspension), but i must say the closest is PMC-3 |
