You got to show me something more!

Hip,Hop, Coldrain got the drop, Scim, Scam, but ain't got it up top, Flim, Flam, he's the man so he say, Wim, Wham, but we can't hear him play, Bim, Bam, the jazz man can talk all day, Dim, Dam, say jazz is all he play, Jim, Jam, he ain't no Bach man, Kim, Kam, and his music got no plan, Now You Has Jazz.

Coltrane, yes I do get it thank you. But your attitude towards this subject (jazz) and music in general, I am afraid is at best misguided and at worst militant and angry. You may disagree all you want but your comments speak for themselves. Your enthusiasm for jazz is obvious and laudable, your arrogance is not. "Jazz players don't imitate anyone" This is part of the mindset that over-romanticizes the creative process in jazz. Now, the greats are obviously inspired musicians but let's not forget (and they themselves are quick to point out)the countless hours that were spent in the practice room "working their shit out" and yes copying or drawing from the players that they emulated. The real Coltrane himself candidly spoke of his own influences Dexter Gordon,Lester Young. Have you ever heard the famous Clifford Browm practice tapes? "Any decent jazz pianist can play circles around a trained classical player" Give me a break. You can't possibly believe this. If you do, you obviously haven't listened to the great classical pianists. If you have and still feel that way, I'm afraid you have let your agenda cloud your senses. Perhaps you didn't mean to but the truth is you have come on too strong about all this. No one music is "better" than another. The best art is always a reflection of society, and a difficult social climate spawns very emotionally rich music. I wonder what much of todays music is saying about our society? That's a seperate thread. Again, your obvious fervor is admirable; but I am somewhat cofused by some obvious contradictions. I don't know how to say it in an inoffencive way so I will try it like this: I can think of few things that musicians hold in more disregard than the use of a giant's name in vain. Calling oneself Coltrane is, if you really understand Jazz and the mindset of it's practitioners a drag to say the least. I will end by quoting Doug Ramsey in notes for "The Complete Paul Desmond RCA Victor Recordings": "Now that the dust has settled from the last century's silly arguments about worth based on sales, sociology and categories rather than on musical value, there is general agreement in the jazz community (that Paul Desmond was one of the major soloists of his time).Listeners- real listeners undistracted by intamural nonesense-knew it all along.

...intramural nonesense...along"

Amen, Frogman.

Dr.Slam and Frogman: Both of your posts are super.