You got to show me something more!

Coltrane, yes I do get it thank you. But your attitude towards this subject (jazz) and music in general, I am afraid is at best misguided and at worst militant and angry. You may disagree all you want but your comments speak for themselves. Your enthusiasm for jazz is obvious and laudable, your arrogance is not. "Jazz players don't imitate anyone" This is part of the mindset that over-romanticizes the creative process in jazz. Now, the greats are obviously inspired musicians but let's not forget (and they themselves are quick to point out)the countless hours that were spent in the practice room "working their shit out" and yes copying or drawing from the players that they emulated. The real Coltrane himself candidly spoke of his own influences Dexter Gordon,Lester Young. Have you ever heard the famous Clifford Browm practice tapes? "Any decent jazz pianist can play circles around a trained classical player" Give me a break. You can't possibly believe this. If you do, you obviously haven't listened to the great classical pianists. If you have and still feel that way, I'm afraid you have let your agenda cloud your senses. Perhaps you didn't mean to but the truth is you have come on too strong about all this. No one music is "better" than another. The best art is always a reflection of society, and a difficult social climate spawns very emotionally rich music. I wonder what much of todays music is saying about our society? That's a seperate thread. Again, your obvious fervor is admirable; but I am somewhat cofused by some obvious contradictions. I don't know how to say it in an inoffencive way so I will try it like this: I can think of few things that musicians hold in more disregard than the use of a giant's name in vain. Calling oneself Coltrane is, if you really understand Jazz and the mindset of it's practitioners a drag to say the least. I will end by quoting Doug Ramsey in notes for "The Complete Paul Desmond RCA Victor Recordings": "Now that the dust has settled from the last century's silly arguments about worth based on sales, sociology and categories rather than on musical value, there is general agreement in the jazz community (that Paul Desmond was one of the major soloists of his time).Listeners- real listeners undistracted by intamural nonesense-knew it all along.

...intramural nonesense...along"

Amen, Frogman.

Dr.Slam and Frogman: Both of your posts are super.

"I can think of few things that musicians hold in more disregard than the use of a giant's name in vain. Calling oneself Coltrane is, if you really understand Jazz and the mindset of it's practitioners a drag to say the least."

Frogman: Some of your comments suggest but one more example of misquotation, presumption, and assumption about many things I've said since beginning this thread. I won't take a defensive posture to counter your suggestions, as they are your beliefs, and as such, you're entitled to them.

Not that I have to explain myself, but for the record, the moniker is COLTRANE1. It is but a moniker. It does not use another persons name in vain, as you suggest. It does promote A) an obvious enthusiasm for Coltrane's music, and B) in the very least does provoke curiosity on the part of some person to ask, "What does Coltrane1 stand for?" (which it has many a time), thereby initiating interest on the part of someone who had no idea who Coltrane was.

I'll not comment on the rest of your post other than to say, yes, a student of an instrument mimics in the beginning, but the ultimate objective is to find one's own voice. There are countless voices in JAZZ that you, I, or anyone can easily identify that don't copy each other.

I believe you have mistaken enthusiasm of JAZZ for arrogance. It's your perception, and like something else we all have, perception is in the mind of the individual. I believe, it is arrogant and ignorant to suggest your own interpretation of what another has written, and intended to say. But that's okay, for we as human beings do this naturally. We always presume our interpretation is what another is saying. And this error occurs in each and every thread ever created. The bottom line. It's about thought, and a sharing of ideas. Not to be taken so seriously, for in the big picture, IT AIN'T THAT CRITICAL.

Enjoy all!
Coltrane1