Your journey with lower-watt tube amps -- Can a kit be good enough?


Looking for stories about your low-watt amp journeys.

Here's the situation: I have new speakers, 97 db. Trying them with lower watt tube amps (45/211, 300b, etc) seems generally wise. I am attempting to borrow some from audiophiles in the area. 

The horizon beyond trying these things involves actually buying some. I'm looking at a budget limit of about $5k.

Curious as to folks' experience with lower-watt amp kits vs. those of good makers (e.g. Dennis Had, etc.).

If you have any thoughts about the following, I'd be interested:

Did you start out with a kit and then get dissatisfied? Why?

Did you compare kits vs. pre-made and find big differences?

Did you find you could get the equivalent level of quality in a kit for much less than the same pre-made version? How about kit vs. used?

Also: did you find there was a difference between "point to point wiring" vs. "PCB" in these various permutations?

I realize that there are good kits and bad ones, good pre-made amps and bad ones. I'm hoping you'll be comparing units which seem at comparable levels of quality and price-points.

Thanks.

128x128hilde45

One thing which seems to hang on this answer is when and whether the general audiophile precept that "simpler is better" is true.

@hilde45  I think it was Einstein who pointed out that a thing can be too simple to do its job well.  I prefer simplicity myself and like to keep things simple if I can. But while a thing might appear simple, from just viewing it you may not see how much is really going on.

For example to get a 300b to sound right it has to be biased properly. That requires one to generate a load line so that you can see if the output transformer used is going to load it correctly, in addition to the operating Voltages. You can't see that just by looking at it.

A self oscillating class D amp can be a fairly simple circuit too. Looking at one, you can't see that the math behind it is pretty complex.

Of course, a lot hangs on what is meant by 'simple'...

@atmasphere 

I think it was Einstein who pointed out that a thing can be too simple to do its job well.  

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler. 

-Albert Einstein 

@mclinnguy Thanks!

So what is actually simpler? Many say SETs are. But they have problems that are very difficult to solve like the elliptical load line I've mentioned several times. I think they are just too simple.

In a conventional push pull tube amp the problem of core saturation in the output transformer is solved (so no elliptical load lines). This allows the the transformer to have much higher inductance at low frequencies and generally lower distortion at any frequency.

If the PP output circuit is biased class A1, it induces no more noise in the power supply than an SET. If the circuit is fully differential then the zero feedback distortion signature can be just as pleasing if not more so then that of an SET.

What I'm getting at is there is a thing I like to call 'elegance'; a simple solution to a difficult problem.

The original Ultra Linear concept was elegant. It was so popular that many sought to get around the patent by simply moving the UL tap to a slightly different spot, sacrificing some linearity to avoid paying a patent royalty. This was so prevalent that most UL transformers made today still do not conform to the UL patent, despite it being long expired. That's why some people like UL designs and others don't- they are not all equal. But the original idea worked quite well and displayed that quality of elegance. 

In case those reading these words aren't familiar with the concept, UL operation allows a pentode power tube, either single-ended or push-pull, to have the linearity of a triode combined with 90% of the power of a pentode while being much easier to drive than a power triode. Anyone doubting this probably should read the original patent issued to Acrosound in the 1950s (David Hafler, one of the inventors, left Acrosound for Dynaco; knew how to break the patent and did; the UL patent was never licensed to Dynaco). 

 

Again, in a nutshell: They shine when not presented with bass or asked to make much power.  I've already explained why they sound good when they do so.

@atmasphere Ralph, I'd like to test that with the implementation of my SETS (I've got the low power part covered with high efficiency speakers and modest listening levels). So I figure I need to split the audio signal before it gets to the SET and create one for the SET and one for my powered subwoofers. The first being treated with a high pass filter and the latter a low pass filter. It so happens I own a MiniDSP 2x4HD which I think can do the job. The only limitation is that I need to then use the internal Dac of the of the MiniDSP and it is not my preferred Dac. Are there alternative approaches that won't cost too much? My music server is a Mac mini running Roon. Roon can do DSP but as far as I know I can only treat one signal stream at a time and there is no way to split the original signal in two and get two outputs from the computer. Any ideas would be appreciated.

Is there possibly a way to split the output from a Dac and then apply the high and low bandpass filters using some combinations of resistors and capacitors as done in a speaker crossover?