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Dealing with a large TV between speakers

Thought I'd post this since it's a glaring problem (somewhat literally, very figuratively). I've got a 50" rear projection LCD TV between my speakers that has to be there for many reasons (HT/living room/etc). Soundstaging on the x and y planes seems OK, perhaps a little narrow, but forget about the Z plane. All the action seems to take place horizontally between speakers, with vocals perhaps a bit projected forward.

I've done the Master Set method on my speakers. They are ~3ft from the rear wall and about 7.5' apart (measured from drivers) . The TV is about 20" out from the rear wall and 4.5' wide. There is roughly 18" between the speakers and the sides of the TV.

For a better visual, I've created a drawing here that I've used for submission to various acoustic panel websites.

As you can see, speakers and TV are along the long wall, and I only have about 12' total between that wall and the wall behind me. I can't move the speakers out too much more, and based on Master Set and the rule of thirds, they seem to be where they should and they do sound good there (no bass bloat, clear imaging, etc). There is roughly 2' of space between the rear wall and my head.

What I've done so far for treatment are the acoustic and diffusion panels you see in the picture, and I've wrapped thick round foam pipe insulation (the tubes you can buy at Home Depot) vertically along the sides of the TV, which seems to help. I've also experimented with hanging a diffusion panel or light foam panels over the front of the TV to cover the front. However, I'm not noticing much of a difference with the front of the TV treated or not, surprisingly (I assumed that there would be more glare and smearing with such a large, untreated, reflective surface between the speakers and directly in front of me).

Outside of throwing a blanket over the TV (which I tried, didn't really work) do you see any way to accomplish more depth to the soundstage? Questions and comments welcome, but keep in mind, I can't move the TV.
tholt
tpreaves's avatar
tpreaves
2,685 posts
 
Tholt,I'm by no means an expert so don't take this comment as the gospel.I don't think the thirds rule works in all situations.I think the only way to deepen the soundstage is to get some more room behind the speakers.The farther away from the wall you get,the less breakup in the sound.This seems to be the consensus on everything I've read on the subject.I realize you only have so much room to play with.Maybe experiment with the toe-in some.I also noticed you have a opening behind the right side.My setup does too and it's a feat to get really great sound when one side is being funneled away thru an opening.Good luck.
newbee
4,767 posts
 
Probably not the response you want, but I can see a way to improve your depth of image etc. Put them on the short wall. The only problem would be the left speaker would probably have to be in a location that would interfere with entering the room. I have a room of similar size and my width/height fill is the rear wall +, and the depth is beyond it. BUT I don't have an entry way where yours is. My speakers are 66 inches from the back wall and only two feet from the side walls. the speakers are 9 1/2 feet apart and my listening chair is 11 feet back.

If you can accommodate that physical set up and are interested, post and I will expand upon how and why it works (for me).
nikturner920
144 posts
 
Love those diffusion panels, are they DIY?

I have to agree about moving the speaker back from the front wall. In my experience, treating the front wall between the speakers helps with imaging and clarity there is a minimum distance the speakers need to be out in to the room to get depth.

I have my speakers on the long wall but am out about 60".
In playing with speaker placement and moving the speakers back towards the wall there is a point where the sound stage just snaps flat and I lose all depth. Obviously this point will depend on your speakers and your room.

Buy some furniture sliders and put them under your speaker spikes and try sliding your speakers forwards and back until you get a handle on all the trade offs with speaker position in your room. All the set up methods are really just guide lines to get started, you have to to the final tuning by ear.
mhedges
180 posts
 
Have you considered selling the TV and getting one of the new ultra thin displays and wall mounting it? You have some nice gear there - the cost will probably be relatively low.

Mark
bryoncunningham
890 posts
 
...speakers and TV are along the long wall, and I only have about 12' total between that wall and the wall behind me.

As you seem well aware, this is the heart of the problem. As I see it, you must play a game of inches. The solution, suggested by several posters, of moving your speakers farther into the room, and thus closer to you, is a natural one, and worth experimenting with. I have a fear about that solution, however, which is that, by getting your (I believe) 3 way speakers closer to you than (the current) 9 feet, you may have problems with driver integration, i.e., coherence. To me, that is a more important consideration than soundstage depth.

In light of that, I agree with Mark's suggestion of getting a flat panel TV and wall mounting it. If I interpreted your measurements correctly, that would place the surface of the TV at least ten inches further back from the drivers of the speakers than it is currently. I know that's not a huge amount, but like I said, this is a game of inches.

The other thing I would consider experimenting with, if you haven't already, is moving your speakers a little farther apart, so that you are a bit closer to an equilateral triangle. I don't think that will improve soundstage depth per se, but it should enlarge the soundstage on the x axis, and possibly enlarge the image sizes slightly, which might compensate, psychologically, for the lack of soundstage depth.

Good luck!

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