hearing tests - where and how?

Electroid,

I think I agree with Shadorne, who said this:

"Up to 12K is important. Higher than that is not really that relevant to music."

I had an audiogram a few years back and asked them to measure out to 12 kHz, which was as high as they could go, and one "step" above the 8 kHz where they usually stop. I had a slight rolloff.

The reason I think I agree with Shadorne (other than the fact that he seems really smart and proficient based on his posts to other threads and his own virtual system thread) is because I've heard those tones higher than 12 kHz with my "AUDIO-CD Hearing Test" CD, and they're REEEEEALLY high. Not pleasant to the ear, and would seem to be about on the same frequency as tape hiss, or maybe even higher.

So anyway, why not test out to 12 kHz for "us" audiophiles?

I agree that higher would be better. My point was that there are few people that are flat at 8K that don't have roll off at both 12 and 16K say but not enouh to deteriorate their HF hearing. As we loose hearing our brains compensate which is why people often aren't aware of a mild to medium hearing loss that happens over say a ten or more year peiod. Also it would be a lot more costly to both pay for and maintain calibration on equipment that measures higher.

I use my signal generator and can still hear 16K. You're right it can be painful and be careful a steady HF sinewave can damge the tweeter and your hearing.

ET

At such high frequencies the wavelengths are so short that placement of a transducer is not very reliable, and the perceived frequency response can vary from trail to trail. If you're trying to use speaker in a no-anachoic environment, minute head movements can vary the results. In psychoacoutic testing we trusted only forced-choice tests in which the listener tries to identify which interval contained the test tone over many trials. Low level hearing is a stochastic process, so the concept of threshold is just that. And then there's the problem with calibration . . .

And what difference does it make anyway? Why not just listen to the audio system of interest?

db

This is in response to Learsfool: I am not trying to be contentious but presenting what I know. Most posters on audio forums refer to the work of Oohashi and associates and it is about their work I was commenting.

What I do not know is what you believe is scientifically reliable evidence of "hearing" significantly beyond 20KHz and would appreciate a reference or two.

Kal

This article makes for interesting reading, and supports what Kal has been saying:

http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_world_above/

The reference in the article to "High-Frequency Sound Above the Audible Range Affects Brain Electric Activity and Sound Perception" is the Oohashi paper Kal referred to, which can be purchased from the AES here.

Also, I hope that Professor Kal R., Ph.D., won't mind if I mention that he is a long-time faculty member at one of the most prestigious medical institutions in the United States.

Regards,
-- Al