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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Thanks Jim

300 hours. I keep hearing the long break in time but they sound really good to me after 10 hours! Can't wait to hear what they will sound like in 300. Right now I am using the Supreme and the SIO would you expect two SIO's too be better. I am ordering another Monday and likely another Supreme. I may just get the SIO and try two on the tweeters. They are very easy to listen too. Detailed without fatigue. I am very glad to have found a cap that works well in vintage horns. Looking forward to another 30 years with the speakers.

The internet sure is handy to hear from other audio freaks. From the volumes I read on the net I thought the SIO would be the one. But you never know till they are in.
merganser
216 posts
 
I have to comment on your experiment. One can not form an accurate opinion on how any of the caps you're trying sound without letting them burn in for at least 200 hours, 400 would be even better. You're doing yourself a disservice by swapping them in and out after only a very short time span.
dgarretson
2,623 posts
 
Agree with Merganser. It's pointless to post an opinion of any new component until after 100 hours, and probably 200 hours for caps. There's a huge amount of misinformation that's circulated as a result of impatience. Some caps in some applications do sound good fresh out of the box. Such was my opinion of V-Cap TFTF when compared to Jensen PIO and to REL TFT-- despite widespread opinion that V-Caps require long break in. However the V-Caps kept changing and by 200-400 hours had obtained a very different & improved signature. Ditto for Mundorf Silver/Gold. IME the main thing that changes through break-in is that the better film caps relax and become supple, warmer, dimensional & airy. The forwardness and brightness that prompts some users to prematurely unplug them disappears.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Sorry guys this log was meant to form an opinion against a stable base (stock original speaker) and my main system so it is meant to say what someone can expect over the break in time. I have not said anything against the Duelund just right out of the box it is somewhat bright. As a guy with old Klipsch for 30 years this is meant to give a general idea of those 5 kinds of caps but more importantly there are lots of guys whose Klipsch (old film in oil caps) are worn out. I could not find a guy who was as picky as me who said these caps are as good as original or better and I do not mean on paper. I wish I could have found this on the net for me, I might not have agreed with the guy but it would have cut the chase down for me to likely a couple of caps. So maybe I should put a clear list of what I am doing so there is no confusion.

Klispch Lascala rebuild. (from a 27+ year owner)
Goals
1. To match the "realism" of original caps. (which I think is VERY good)
2. Same or more detail yet still smooth
3. Keep as close as possible to original sound. Not looking to change the sound, unless clearly better.
4. Cost not much of a factor as I intend on another 30 years out of the speakers.

So you guys think say with the Sonicaps that have maybe 30 hours on them they will become dynamic after a number of hours? Say 300? I found them flat out of the box and flat at 30 hours. Will that improve? They are very tiny compared to say Mundorf or originals.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Dgarretson

"Ditto for Mundorf Silver/Gold. IME the main thing that changes through break-in is that the better film caps relax and become supple, warmer, dimensional & airy. The forwardness and brightness that prompts some users to prematurely unplug them disappears".

This I can see but with the Sonicaps my knock was NOT forward and brightness but dead and lifeless lack of dynamics they were not bright. So can a cap after break in get more life? That I have not heard of. That is why I have wrote them off at 30 hours.

The Duelund's I have not (wrote off) as they are very dynamic! They are edgey and hard to listen too but sounds just pop! What Tony Gee says is true that violins sounded like they were coming right out of the speakers. When I put the Mundorf's back in they sounded somewhat soft by comparison. (but relaxed and nice to listen too)

If any cap fits the typical breakin sound it is the Duelund's as they are dynamic and edgy. So my comments only meant to say the Mundorf is very easy listen right out of the box.
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