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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
dgarretson
2,599 posts
 
I also use Duelund R and concur with Face. Duelund R sounds both cleaner and smoother in my Merlins than stock Caddock MP power resistors. At some point I will try Duelund C-- but not until I've attended to other mods to components that I believe have better price/performance ratio. Meanwhile, ClarityCap MR in Merlin tweeter is VERY good, and I will shortly be trying MR in Merlin woofer.

Volleyguy, I won't bother to compare the PIOs to each other, but only point out how tricky comparing caps can be, even to "well-educated" ears. Before I wired in the A/B switch to allow instant comparisons, I simply replaced the Mundorf Silver/Gold dry caps that I was accustomed to, with various PIO caps in sequence. In nearly every case I was inclined to say Wow! how impressive a change. But what was really happening is that my judgment was being carried off by the emotional content of the presence region. After installing the A/B switch, I was able to evaluate each cap carefully, and in the end came back to Mundorf. Once and awhile I need to switch in a PIO-- say to hear the last measure of stoic weathering in Johnny Cash's voice on Solitary Man. But there is fine detail that just goes missing with these PIOs, and a slurring of LF that becomes monotonous.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Dgarretson
You will have even more shocking results using the Clarity MR on your woofers than the tweeters :-)

Thats where the clarity really excells, best bass I have heard from any system, WAY more impact than any mundorfs have in Low frequency response as you state above. However they MR ain't cheap in some of the values needed for a woofer, but well worth it if you don't want to screw around. By the way the only other Cap that holds up nearly as well in Low frequency impact is the Jantzen superior, all the other clarity caps, mundorfs, hovlands etc... Are dry and aenimic in comparison to the rich perfect bass the Clarity MR and Jantzen can produce, but all around the clarity mr for full range frequencies are a more refined cap.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Dgarretson I would agree totally on the vintage PIO caps.

I did like the vintage foil in oil in the midrange 2nd favorite to the Duelund but in the tweeters vintage was just garbage. So much slurring and noise just trash. I think/hope you will be surprised by the Duelund when you do get them. It is the realism.

I wish Frederik would clarify if the realism is the no plastic?

Frederik you mentioned quality of the whole chain. In that "quality" does that mean getting rid of plastic? Steen felt that very important.

I am just asking this as I do not know whether to fix up the paper bobbin OPT vintage amp or do a more modern one.

I have heard very expensive modern tube amps and yes they were smooth but not real sounding.

Fas948 has had the reaction I would hope for from Duelund coupling caps. I find Duelund does not show full glory if mixed with plastic caps. Is non plastic OPT the same?

Maybe Frederik could answer that when running a (plastic mid range cap) into the Duelund tweeter cap I did not get the full Duelund sound. I did with the vintage foil in oil cap the Duelund sounded great in the tweeter. What I mean by this is that one plastic cap in the chain was not good.
duelund_coherent_audio
110 posts
 
As you correctly state, Steen was of the conviction that plastic was a malaise when it came to sound reproduction. He considered all statically chargeable materials imperfect in that regard. Stated popularly he meant only natural materials would create a natural sound.

His theories are certainly the reason why we use no plastic in our products. Be advised that his findings are based on listening tests, I cannot claim irrefutable evidence.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Frederik in my test which of course is only my one set of speakers. I could mix and match vintage foil in oil in one speaker and Duelund in the other and listen to both speakers. As soon as one speaker had plastic caps and one with the vintage foil I could listen to only one or the other speaker at a time. It was almost like they were out of phase.

Also when a plastic cap was put in for the midrange and Duelund for the tweeter and the signal goes through midrange cap. The Duelund did not give the same improvement. (yet the Duelund did when used with the vintage foil midrange cap)

By far the second best cap was the original foil cap in the midrange. Again no plastic. Many Klipsch fans say the AA crossover is the best I often wonder if it the foil caps they used then. Newer Klipsch crossovers used plastic (industry norm) and do not have the following.

I have yet to hear a customer of yours not think your caps make a natural sound.

My modern SS amp did not make the same improvement using Duelund as the vintage tube amp does either. My amp of course was loaded with plastic caps.

There is also a large following of vintage guitar amps, (my tech guy who plays guitar would have nothing but vintage tube guitar amp) vintage stereo amps all with no plastic as a common thread. The thing both vintage guys will talk about is the tone!

I do want to thank you as I have yet to find a downside to you caps.

My gut says and I am going to find out if your caps do the trick in a vintage amp. My gut says a vintage tube amp with (no plastic anywhere almost) and a set of Duelund coupling caps will blow me away. All the "real feel" of the vintage/foil with a massive noise reduction to really let you hear what is going on. To me your caps are the best of both worlds.
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