2. speakers
  3. 1211428524

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
face
516 posts
 
You guys are killing me...

Can anyone go into detail as to why the CAST's are so much better?

Comparing Clarity MR's to copper VSF's, the VSF's had better tonality/timbre, but the MR's were better in every other way.

I'm using a mix of Clarity MR's and copper VSF's in my Tannoy HPD-385's and am having fantastic results. I'm still tweaking the crossovers in my custom speakers and so far am happier with MR's over VSF's. Since the values needed (10uf, 68uf, 88uf) would be way too big for CAST's, maybe a mix of MR's and CAST as bypasses(10%) may be worth trying.

Mike
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Face, these guys have not even compared the MR's in the same application, also this guy is doing it so half A$$ with one cap of one type on one speaker etc... I have ruled out any kinda true comparison... Set up a "STEREO" FULL fledged finished pair of crossovers THEN compare, not one cap one speaker at a time and we can get a true bead on the final results. By the way even in the applications from Humble hifi or whatever this guy is basically using these in Tweeters, thats fine and dandy, no doubt some of the premium caps show their slight differences in the more enhanced hi frequencys applications.

I would not worry about it, use a mix as you see fit of VSF and MR's and your not missing much. No doubt if you have the extra money and Space going for the 100% Cast system could be very nice, but nothing wrong with those MR's as a matter of fact they could be better in one speaker or electronic than a duelund, taste, preference, and final tone will be different for all.
dgarretson
2,601 posts
 
I agree that the comparison of caps is useless unless the caps have been deployed in matched stereo pairs-- or unless the speakers are compared to each other separately as mono point sources. Here are some examples of similar perceived phenomena: (1) Install fresh tubes in one channel of an amplifier and hear improvements in both channels; (2) Install a supertweeter that works above the "audible frequency range" and hear improvements below the frequency range of supertweeter.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Dgarretson, exactly my point, if you read back thru this now WAY DEAD thread facts are that even with the original posters testing and other amature builders thoughts bottom line is all this stuff especially with the testing of the cast was done in circuits following or leading another cap of different type #1, secondly they are all done in Mono testing...

I have discounted 99% of this thread as just bantering about how one small difference could be heard in 30 seconds after re-configuring a single design 15 times.. All of above are premium caps, all will do a good job, better or worse is impossible to pinpoint with everyones application, but the cast is not a miracle pepper cap on eggs. Run full out real tested finished crossovers with consistent cap use, and no doubt 100% clarity cap or Duelund VSF will then show you what is necessary, but this also has to be done with resistors and inductors of quality not from 1979 integrating the other drivers in the system..

No matter what you will find other issues. Inexperience or experience will show this, but no doubt there are some good shortcuts along the way and a 600 dollar capacitor or a 6000 dollar amplifier can make some kinda difference, but is it perfect? Nothing is in the end, but getting close is the key.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Face
Why are CAST so much better than VSF?
Massive noise reduction. The CAST make the VSF sound noisy in comparison. In my comments to Frederik I did mention that without a doubt I did not get the full Duelund effect if I ran a plastic midrange cap then signal goes into the Duelund tweeter cap.

I did get the full Duelund effect running the plastic free vintage foil in oil midrange cap into Duelund tweeter cap and did admit the difference from vintage foil midrange cap and Duelund was not massive and even Frederik did not dis the idea.

To Frederik I did say I did not get the full Duelund effect with my modern and quite pricey plastic filled SS amp.

So Face if your signal runs through the Clarity and into the VSF in my opinion you will not even be hearing (maybe 20%) of what the Duelund's can do for tone. If you do not get the full tone benefit of the VSF I can understand why you may like the Clarity better. I believe you the Clarity could be quieter that was the reason to go to Poly caps was it not? The VSF is about bringing real tones into the system and the CAST brings real tones with the black background of the best polycaps making the CAST as Tony says the best of both worlds.
More to discover