2. speakers
  3. 1211428524

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Undertow

Yes this thread may be "WAY DEAD" but the quote saying not using resistors and inductors of 1979 quality. You say that as if 1979 quality was for sure a bad thing? Frederik even admitted that Steen until he came out with his own caps used vintage caps and in my tests the vintage foil blew away the modern Mundorf Supreme. The reason I have not replaced the inductor is not $$$ but I take getting the plastic very seriously and bringing more plastic in is not the direction I want to go.

I also ended up selling my "modern" $10k amp and pre-amp for a vintage Fisher x101d. It was not even close and the fisher did not have any 1979 parts only 1964 parts so the linear improvement in parts in time I question very much.

Even Tony who rates both Duelund caps as #1 and #2 in the world is really just saying that a high quality vintage cap made of all natural ingredients known for 100's of years is the best in the world. All the "modern" plastic caps are all of varying degrees somewhat inferior.
ait
480 posts
 
I have not heard the CAST or VSF caps, but this whole "natural" vs plastic thing is a bit much for me. Are the Duelunds certified organic, too?

It seems to me that synthetic materials can be engineered to provide better, more consistent electrical properties than "natural" materials, and will certainly be more consistent from batch to batch. Take "spider silk" for example, which I believe Duelund uses - how consistent can that be? Doesn't it depend on what type of spider it comes from, what they eat, whether they are healthy, the weather, the air they breathe, the stage of their lifecycle they are in, etc.? Does Duelund have a spider farm where they produce the silk under carefully controlled conditions (maybe they do - which could help explain the cost of these things!)?

Mother nature is the consummate engineer, but she designs with an eye toward survival and reproduction, not optimum electrical and acoustical properties.

Somehow I feel an anti-technology bias creeping in here; "natural" is a hot marketing category these days, and I wonder how much of the supposed superiority actually exists over synthetic materials, be they foods, medicines, clothes or capacitors?
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Materials, yes I have a plastic man made knob on my preamp volume right now.. But when I change it to exotic natural wood from the forest of enchantment watch out!!! Again there are facts, and half truth myths in this hobby, not one size fits all sorry… And we will not get anything out of this accept each application will require something possibly different.
dgarretson
2,617 posts
 
I am a nature boy as well in some projects, preferring cotton-clad wire to synthetic insulation, wood-encased output transformers to mu shields, wood enclosures to metal. But there are so many exceptions of necessity that forming a cult of nature around electrical materials is mostly fruitless. There are other cultist goals to pursue, such as building power supplies that avoid all electrolytic caps. And those who distain plastic caps must remember that teflon-- possibly the best dialectric material and the only known material on which a gecko cannot obtain traction-- is a synthetic. Nature boys should also consider winding their own resistors on wood dowels.
face
516 posts
 
Volley,
I have now heard Clarity MR's and copper Duelund VSF's in both my Tannoy's and custom speakers. I still stand by my opinion that imaging and dynamics are better with MR's. But, I could see how someone could still prefer Duelund due to their timbre. Their tonality is slightly better and they are also a little smoother. Not that MR's are harsh at all, but they don't hold anything back or color the music either.

Mike
More to discover