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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Face looking forward to what you have to say. I find the VSF is getting lost here. It is after all Tony Gee's #2 cap in the world. I am finding out that (to me) resonance is much more of a factor than I ever imagined.

Sherod VSF was LESS money than Mundorf? I have not heard the Silver/Gold/Oil but can say that VSF is money well spent over Silver/Oil.

I am just waiting on coupling caps and inductor. Excited about both and am looking at CAST for critical areas as coupling caps like the phono stage. I just need to know what Duelund can do in a amp before spending that kind of money. I am starting with low voltage VSF before blowing the wad on CAST. My feeling is a lot of Duelund (either one) is better than a few CAST caps. (of course that is just a feeling)
sherod
1,690 posts
 
Sorry, the VSF was a little "more" expensive than the Mundorf. I should have proof-read my post better.
duelund_coherent_audio
110 posts
 
Dgarretson,

Well, I've got some cases where the manufacturer has published they use CAST themselves:

Tidal T1
Kaiser Kawero
Peak Consult (Momentum line)
Perfect8 Technologies
New American speaker, hopefully debuting at the Rocky Show.

Hope that helps.

Frederik
face
516 posts
 
Here's my quick impression.

The CAST are the best caps I've heard so far. But are they worth the price, probably not for everyone.

Over the MR, they offer a little more transparency and better tonality. Imaging, soundstage, dynamics, are similar with both caps. Must be something to do with their anti-resonance designs.

I've experimented with MR, VSF, and CAST in three different speakers. My Tannoy Saturns have perfect synergy with MR's in the HF circuit, I have no desire to try anything else in them. My Tannoy HPD-385A's use three caps in the HF circuit, replacing all three of them with MR's gave a little sheen, I replaced one of the caps(the only in series) with a VSF and found synergy. Since these are in a secondary rig, I couldn't imagine fronting for a CAST in that position. Now for my dedicated two channel rig, I use custom speakers consisting of Seas Magnesium drivers and a Scan Speak Air Circ tweeter. I've tried a few different caps in them, including Mundorf S/O, VSF's, and MR's. MR's worked the best overall in them, but I still preferred Duelund's tonality in that rig. I then ordered a pair of CAST's for those speakers. While waiting for them, I ordered a pair of small VSF's to parallel with a pair of MR's. Paralleling the two gave me most of what I'm looking for, but still wasn't perfect. I like to use a single cap in the HF circuit whenever possible. I found that paralleling or "bypassing" caps in the HF circuit usually leads to some signal degradation, I haven't noticed this in MP or LP circuits though. Finally the CASTs arrived(ahead of time too!). As I mentioned before, they have the same large soundstage, and precise imaging as the MR's, but with a more natural tonality and little more detail without harshness. If I had unlimited funds would I buy these for all of my speakers in every position...no, because I still do prefer MR's in some speakers. I still wouldn't mind having another pair or two though.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Face I do think the CAST take longer to break in than VSF. I found them a little tight for awhile. (couple of weeks)

Undertow I read in another thread that you changed coupling caps in the phono stage to great affect. I am very eager to try this as I expect that a simple tube phono stage that the coupling caps will be of huge importance. I have been reading the Clarity cap (white paper) and they (as Dave had mentioned) as well (as Duelund) think resonance to be of huge importance. The cost is much less for Clarity but are not available in values I can test in electronics. .047uf is the largest in the amp. Do they make smaller? What about tonality though? The clarity cap may address resonance but tone?

I have to totally agree with what they say on 5-25khz resonance. I also agree with what they say on preference for resonance. At first when I would have friends listen to the the high resonance vintage foil caps vs. Duelund VSF some liked that resonance at first. Then after about 30 minutes they completely switched to low resonance Duleund. But I could imagine just as Clarity's white indicated some people may prefer the high resonance. The ones who did prefer high resonance (at first) were guys who like hard rock music and had an idea of how a rock concert sounded. (very poor)

Now Undertow with you not being over joyed with Duelund's strength, tone? Sorry I can not remember are you running SS? and is there poly caps in the amp? meaning is the Duelund in the crossover the first foil cap in the system? I can understand other caps being more dynamic quieter etc. but that Duelund tonality for me I would not want be without. I do agree with you if you have poly caps in the amp though as when I had the SS amp here I found Deulund better in tone but not worth the $. I thought about 20% tone improvement of what came from the all foil amp. What surprised me more was that Frederik did not disagree with this? Mighty big of him.

I do expect that what Clarity said about capacitors ALL resonating at 5-25khz is right as well with inductors. That is exactly where the NC inductor gives off noise. Every time I start with that speaker I am impressed with detail but end up switching back to the one with the vintage inductor. (wax paper)

Looking forward to Duelund's WPIO inductor. Should be here soon right guys? I hope/expect it to be quieter in the high freq as it is no doubt will resonate less than the vintage wax paper inductor.

I am waiting on Jimmy's Junkyard test.
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