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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Daz_Bike

I do remember liking it CAST/VSF over the other way but not something huge. Of course YMMV. It has been well talked about how a circuit will take a caps characteristics.

What I think helps in the thread is you can expect the same as others have got. The CAST do not resonate so this may be good for you but you WILL get less noise and this tilts the sound to more bass. My feeling is that the circuit takes the sound of the last cap the most?

I like the bloom of the VSF. We all know it was dead quiet in the studio yet for some reason we are used to a little noise? I suspect it is a the Clarity white paper says all caps resonate at a high freq so we are used to it.
dgarretson
2,599 posts
 
"We all know it was dead quiet in the studio yet for some reason we are used to a little noise?"

I think you've touched the white elephant in the room with most audio systems. IMO the perceived liveliness and so-called treble air of a lesser system is riding up on top of an underlying noise level that casual listeners find impressive. Along these lines, after recently treating various components with AVM anti-resonance paint, my first impression was the contradictory sense of qualities both gained and lost. But after further listening, it became clear that despite a slight perception of treble darkness, treble detail and extension had actually been improved.

It was particularly impressive to apply this paint to monolithic DSPs and op amp chips, the tops of electrolytic caps, resistor bodies, and tiny closely spaced circuit traces in CDP and Merlin line-stage BBAM. I'm beginning to think of the entire audio chain from silicon on up (not just capacitors) in terms of internally generated microphonic resonant affects.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Hmmm interesting Dave.

I have always wondered why Audio is not clear cut like video. Put 10 guys in a room and they will mostly like the same TV as the best and will not have big disagreements either way. Ask the same question about Audio and you could have 10 different systems picked.

So 10 people looking for a different levels of microphony?

Most music we reference (in our minds) was amplified so of course it would have had noise when we heard it.

Another thing I bet is most of the guys spending money on high end (low resonant) caps are older. I find as I age I like less resonance. I become frustrated by noise yet still want "treble air".

For me it is going to be a combo of Jensen, Duelund VSF and CAST when noise needs to be reduced.

"I'm beginning to think of the entire audio chain from silicon on up (not just capacitors) in terms of internally generated microphonic resonant affects".

I think it is exactly that.
duelund_coherent_audio
110 posts
 
"I'm beginning to think of the entire audio chain from silicon on up (not just capacitors) in terms of internally generated microphonic resonant affects".

This was a part of Steen's modus operandi.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Since getting an all foil signal chain of vintage and then massively improving with Duelund I have only one nagging question?

In the begining of this thread I took as fact my Linn Lp12 sounded great and the Linn Karik a piece of junk capable of making everything sound dead and plastic.

Well several K$'s in Duelund parts and my CD player sounds awesome. Crazy super natural sounding! Just mind boggling. Now my Lp12 (almost a loaded one before recent updates) can sound very good but there is always present a slight groove noise that is clear to me know. Even on mint (almost never played) vinyl. It gets worse as you move through the LP. The stylus is not very old either.

Now if one thinks about it. Why would there NOT be almost a static high freq sound caused by the rubbing of diamond on vinyl? Also it should get worse as the stylus moves faster in the groove.

So after ditching 150+ lps because of clear wear and have more to ditch. I have thought about getting rid of the turntable maybe as well.

This is not what I thought was going to happen by getting high quality parts. I believe the "treble air" I thought was some unique part of the vinyl "live" experience is really just high freq static mechanically generated. Of course digital can not generate this "treble air".
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