2. amps-preamps
  3. 1014962180

Which direction would you go?

I have spent the last ten years living with a system that is to my ears unlistenable. I was sucked in by the stereophile recommended components list, and bought based on cost and ratings, rather than common sense and proper auditions. I ended up with the following: B&W 802 Matrix II's, a Threshold S350e amp, a Krell KBL preamp, and a front end comprised of a Theta pro Gen II and Data Mk II. As you might well imagine, I have endured bright, harsh sound in three different homes over the years. I tried room tunes (any buyers?) all manner of cables (I presently own Cardas Cross bi-wire) a CJ premier 10 pre-amp (not enough of a difference to justify the switch) and Cal audio front end. In frustration, I have sold the Krell, and the Threshold, and have active listings for the B&W and Cardas, and plans to sell the Theta as soon as possible. I listen mostly to small scale instrumental and female vocals from various genres. I enjoy Linda Ronstadt, Sara K, Rickie Lee Jones, Allison Krauss, Annie Lennox, Dixie Chicks, Etta James, Karen Carpenter, Joe Sample, Miles, Ronnie Earl, Govi, Willie and Lobo, Lyle Lovett, James Taylor, and so much more. I have front row center seats for the NY Philharmonic for the last fifteen years and have seen more concerts than I could name. I was set on the idea of downsizing to a home theater setup, Integra receiver and DVD/CD with Definitive Technology pro 100 speaker system or maybe the NHT Super Series SB3. They seem to have OK sound on both music and movies, but I wonder if the trade-off is too great since 98% of the time I will be listening to music with only an occasional music video or movie. I am quite certain I have never heard my B&W's perform the way they should, but am not certain I wish to invest more money chasing the Holy Grail. (Also tried Bryston 4B). I have reviewed threads here and contemplated trying the Classe gear. I have also thought about selling the B&W's and buying a speaker with a silk dome tweeter or a propensity toward warmth. (Mission, Soliloquy, JM Labs, Vandersteen) My room is a LIVING room and dining room L shape, (20 x13 living attached to 14 x12 dining) and it is lively with 11' acoustical ceiling. In any event, I would like to avail myself of the multi-channel options while focusing on two channel performance. I keep my speakers on the long wall and listen near-field. I do not believe electrostats are an option for me due to size, placement, and WAF issues. Please let me know your thoughts, and be gentle as this is my first post here on Agon.
mike7142
goose
708 posts
 
Mike,

I have been udgrading for the last couple of years and I know what you mean about that harshness on the high end. You might consider the JM Lab speakers such as the Utopia Micro or Mini. I just bought the Mini's on audiogon and will be adding a REL subwoofer. These speakers have a very nice high end and are very open on vocals. I listened to many speakers including B&W's before I bought them. The metal dome tweeters on the B&W's are hard to tame. For low end the Mini's need a sub but are very enjoyable even without. Also, placement doesn't seem to be an issue. They sounded very good in a variety of positions.

I recently upgraded my CD player to a Cary 303 and am very impressed on the improvement in sound. It is very open, detailed has excellent extension and solves many of my complaints about high end harshness. I am now looking for other electronics. I have heard the Plinius and Sim Audio integrated and the Sim sounded better. It was more open, sweeter and musical. I have heard good things about the newer McIntosh integrateds but also have an interest the Conrad Johnson and YBA products.
gunbei
2,327 posts
 
Hi Mike. It seems to me that you've assembled a system that is definitely not your tastes, specifically revealing SS amps mated to revealing speakers. Maybe the first thing you should consider is a tube preamp to go with the Threshold, and if that's not enough of a shift for you then consider changing your speakers.

Just like many others, I use the Stereophile Recommended Components issues to learn about all the different gear out there. But more importantly I've learned that it's just a guide, and rely much more heavily on the reviews and diverse experiences of fellow audiophiles. And, buying used definitely reduces any cash losses.
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
Mike, I think you may be onto something with the soft dome tweeters. I'm using Vienna Acoustic Beethovens and I love them, I don't think I could ever go back to a Titanium or Aluminum dome tweeter, they all sound harsh to me now. I also recommend the Classe line of equipment. I currently own a CDP1 CD Player and CP60 preamp from Classe. They are both very musical. I did own a Classe CA-200 amp, and like it, but I've upgraded to a Threshold T400. The Threshold seemed to have better high end, detailed, but not bright or fatiguing. I haven't heard you mention tubes. You may want to check out some BAT gear as well.
Another thing you may look at is a nice analog rig. Many people can never come to grips with digital, no matter what equipment is used. Vinyl definitely is smoother on the top end.
Check out some of the Vienna Acoustic speakers, you may just fall in love with that silk, soft dome tweeter.
I hope this helps.

John
trich727
67 posts
 
Hey Mike, Tom again :)
Well, you are getting lots of adivice, it's even confusing me and I'm not looking to change anything! Sean does point out something very true, Threshold Amps and Preamps are VERY revealing, as are the B&W's. So in my quest for the grail, I have always used that to my advantage; take two known factors to evaluate the third. And I have done it many times, to either improve the sound, or rule it out of the running. Sean also says that earlier Threshold amps, and here I have to bid nieve, were very load sensitive. My understanding of the 350E is that it is very much like my own S300 updated by Threshold to an E in I think 1994. Even that was a challenge as the first time Threshold sent it back, the soundstage lacked depth from what I was used to and Chris English was nice enough to put it in his system and tweak it up for me. It turned out that even though the unit was designed to run at 110 degrees, the depth opened up at 114 degrees amp temperature measured at the heatsink mounting screws. Nelson, Chris and Jon at Threshold have been nothing less than SUPERB with me. And yes, I may be a Threshold diehard, as I am with B&W, but when I find something that works, I'll stick with it. I've seen many names come and go, in fact my tonearm is one of them, "The Arm". I don't think I've ever even read a review about it anywhere but I'll never change it unless it breaks, and then I'll try another name I trust on the person that broke it; Colt Python. Good luck, I'm out of answers... Tom
mike7142 OP
23 posts
 
Many thanks to you all, I can see that all is not lost. I think Sean has touched on some of my problem by pointing out that load matching may have been an issue with the Krell pre-amp and Threshold amp. Both of these pieces have been sold right here on Audiogon (Thanks to those buyers). I have also been fortunate enough to speak with John Rutan of Audio Connection, through whom I had a chance to meet Dennis Had of Cary. John remembered that my Theta DAC had an output of 7 volts, which, when hooked up with my other gear meant that I couldn't turn the volume on the Krell up past the nine-o-clock position, and most often it was closer to seven or eight o'clock. Perhaps not a good thing. Anyway, I sent the Theta in for a voltage gain reduction, which will help until I can upgrade the entire digital front end and only cost me about $ 100. I have also purchased a Cary SLP 2002 pre-amp and their new Rocket 88 tube amp. John has also been kind enough to offer me a loan of a Cary 303 CD player, to compare with the Theta. While I am waiting for the amp to arrive (which I can return if I am not happy!!!) I am using the time to install 3 dedicated lines per instructions I have read on old threads. I will be setting up my speakers on the long wall of a 19 x 14 room, with roughly a 9' triangle. There is a wool area rug over a felt pad, some artwork and a sofa on the rear wall, and some trees in the corners. If I can't make peace with the B&W's after all this, I will begin my quest for new speakers to match with the Cary gear. Thanks again for your interest and support. Mike
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