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Integrated Shootout: Rogue Tempest/Cary Sli80 sig

The Cary is stock re: all tubes except power tubes, the 6922 tubes are Sovtek, the 5u4g tubes are Sovtek as well, the 6sn7 tubes are Chinese, and the power tubes are Svet 6550 and Electro Harmonix 6550EH.
The Rogue has the Sovtek 12ax7 and JAN Phillips 12au7(tube upgrade from Rogue) and the same power tubes (Svet 6550, EH 6550EH).

Ok. The Cary is a bit more refined. Alot, actually. But the Cary with stock tubes, is brighter (I can't believe I think it sounds bright, but it does).
The Rogue had soundstage DEPTH out the yin-yang, while the Cary is more 2-D (I don't like this at all).
As far as Soundstage width , the Cary is wider, but with the depth lacking so, it seems more "fake" than the Rogue.
The Rogue, because of it's depth and acceptable width, sounds more like music in real space, but with a more "tubey" sound (it sounds colored, but the coloring makes it sound real), while the Cary's tone is purer and the pace more lively, but because of the brightness and flat soundstage, it seems to suffer by comparison. Both throw an image very, very well.

I am going to be tweaking around with some 6sn7 and 6922 tubes for the Cary, in an effort to get the brightness out (I know this can be fixed) and most importantly, the soundstage depth up to snuff. I just wanted to post my results so far. The Tempest, with the upgraded preamp tubes from Rogue (I think a $100 option) gets the nod vs the totally stock Sli80.

This is going to get good.... stay tuned.
Opinions are appreciated...
gthirteen
chelillingworth
309 posts
 
Oh yeah Man ! I'm not one of those guys who talks out of my behind. I think though we can settle as sying that perhaps it is more personal taste and associated equipment. I just think that it is a little nutty when some affordable piece of gear gets a good review and everybody runs after it thinking it's a giant killer. Or like all the great reviews of Patricia Barber trying to pass her off as a Jazz singer uhhg.
Finally back to the original post my comments were to make the point that the Rogue products are so good that they really do outclass the little Planet and that I really feel that much more bang for the buck improvements lie with the front end. Have fun, give it a try.
chelillingworth
309 posts
 
Just read through all of the previous posts and without going into lots of detail I have listened to lots of players at home including the planet and planet 2000. So I feel that my opinion of those players is well founded and I would have refrained from commenting otherwise. I really did want to like them. I am certainly not trying to push itmes I own. As I regretfully don't own even the much loved Rogue anymore as I needed something that could be left on all of the time. I am currently playing with a modded sony 9000es which is quite good an I love the versatility but lacks the body of some of the better redbook only players although still a league beyond either Rega.
The Cary house sound is well documented and I have heard it next to a Rogue at a dealer and it lacked the tranparency and drive of the Rogue by quite a bitjust wasnt something I had any interest in lugging home. Again try some other players and have fun. I don't think I need to eat too much crow eh?!
gthirteen OP
358 posts
 
Anyway,
Thanks for all the comments, guys.
I threw the Rogue back in last night, and (no NOS tubes received for the Cary yet) I am confident that the Cary, while certainly MORE transparent and possessing a more capable drive than the Rogue, simply sounds more like HiFi, whereas the Rogue sounds more like music. My opinions of the Rogue v Cary sound seem to be in absolute conflict with Chelly's ideas, but hey, that's what makes my ears golden, and Chelly's brass (JUST KIDDING, REALLY). Anyway, I'm waiting on some 40's vintage 7308's and 6sn7, as well as some loaners from 2 of the coolest members of Audiogon (you know who you are). I think that once I get the Cary going with some nice tubes, it will shine. I shudder to think what would happen if I could keep the much more neutral sound of the Cary and it's superior drive and transparency, but get the presence, and soundstaging of the Rogue... Anyone interested in the TOPIC of this thread, please stay tuned, as I promise to document this competition fully, and hopefully get some other locals involved, so as to get the all important second opinion.
gthirteen OP
358 posts
 
I got some loaner Amperex 7308s from Dekay (thanks David) and some loaner Sylvania 6sn7-GTB from Musicdoc (thanks John)and put 'em in the Cary. This was a BIG help. THe upper level harshness is gone, and there is some more air, and more depth to the soundstage. OK. The depth is not quite as deep as the Rogue, which still sounds more natural, however, I have noticed that the bass of the Rogue in ultralinnear isn't as tight as the Cary's bass, even when the Cary is run in Triode.

Rogue Tempest:
A really natural tone, a but fuzzy, good presentation (soundstage deep but confined laterally to the space between the speakers with most recordings), a bit laid back, perhaps a tad rolled off, somewhat languid, pace-wise, and somewhat loose, somewhat bloated bass.

Cary Sli-80 Signature:
Less natural sounding (JUST A BIT), no Fuzz whatsoever, good presentation (soundstage wider but not quite as deep) Images, while more defined, sound more artificial, not laid back, Even throughout the frequency range, nice pace, (a toe-tapper for sure), and nice, tight bass.

So, until I cn find some nice warm 6922 tubes, the Rogue still has my heart, if not my Audiophile brain.
chelillingworth
309 posts
 
The Magnum pumps the Bass and loses the Fuzz. That is a good description ! That is one of the biggest improvements I heard was a pure, clear high end.
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